Southwest's new plan to screw Airtran pilots

[SWA Bubba]

Really? We're gonna' do THIS again?

- Southwest doesn't charge for bags because of its strategy to win market share. GK says and believes that it works and that he's ahead because of it, and has numbers to show for it. See the numbers Jonjuan quoted. You don't believe the numbers? Fine; good for you. Believe what you want. However, we're all pilots, not CFOs or CEOs, so generally we have to take the word of people who do this for a living.

- Southwest CAN charge for bags if it wanted to, immediately. As dicked-up as our IT department is, this capability is there. We already charge for bags after two, and already charge for too-heavy or too-bulky bags. If you show up with only one bag, but it weighs 80lbs, the counter agent pushes a button on her computer, and presto!, you're charged for a bag. I suspect he or she could push that same button if your bag only weighed 20lbs as well, if she were instructed to.

- Airtran has been charging for bags and will continue to do so because that's their model. Obviously as Airtran gets smaller and slowly turns into Southwest, that goes away.

People expect to pay for a bag on Airtran; however they expect to NOT pay for a bag on Southwest. Besides, the revenue-to-cost structure is different between the two operations. Southwest and Airtran are still two different types of operations. Despite what General Lee bellows incessantly, you can't just snap your fingers and make them equal. Airtran is more hub-and-spoke, and apparently fly their crews and planes less efficiently. That seems to be getting even worse during the transistion, listening to Airtran guys on this board talking about their reserve manning, for example. This is the same reason GK stated as why he couldn't afford to pay SWAPA wages for Airtran flying. If Fornaro needed bag fees and lower wages to support Airtran's operations when he ran the show at stand-alone Airtran, it seems obvious that GK would need to as well. That's why Airtran is being turned into Southwest's model and not the other way around.

If you guys think you have better answers on how to run an airline, then you're wasting yourselves as mere pilots. You should start your own airline, and make CEO wages instead of just the crappy pilots' wages we make now.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yet you can charge for priority boarding that gives you a free drink along with it? Are you sure about that? What about the new fees for more than 2 bags? Are you sure about your statement?


Bye Bye---General Lee

General Lee posted this while I was writing my response above! Wow, he actually said something factual about Southwest without coming across as condescending! It's probably just his Christmas present to Southwest pilots on the board....

Bubba

 

[climbhappy]

GK says and believes that it works

that's my point...he thinks it works....i chose southwest to fly from raleigh to nashville because it was direct....and it is a short leg....there are many reasons for market share growth...GK has a hunch based on his competitors doing what they do....
...as for being a CEO, just ask the guy who runs netflix about his genius move...and how it tanked his stock....you act like all pilots have no other expertise outisde the cockpit....you're wrong on that too...

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Because Gary made a fool of himself by making such a huge deal of not charging for bags, and now he'll look like an even bigger fool if he goes back on it. He's painted himself into a corner.

PCL gets it.

 

[jonjuan]

Really? We're gonna' do THIS again?

- Southwest doesn't charge for bags because of its strategy to win market share. GK says and believes that it works and that he's ahead because of it, and has numbers to show for it. See the numbers Jonjuan quoted. You don't believe the numbers? Fine; good for you. Believe what you want. However, we're all pilots, not CFOs or CEOs, so generally we have to take the word of people who do this for a living.

Bubba

SWA Bubba (and Jonjuan) gets it.

 

[GIZMONC]

Just to set you straight on the Business select and Early Bird:
Business Select is our most rewarding, completely refundable fare. You'll receive Priority Boarding, access to our Priority Ticket Counter and Security Lanes, and a premium drink ($5 value), and maximum Rapid Rewards Points.

Add EarlyBird Check-InSM to your reservation of a Wanna Get Away Fare or Anytime Fare, and we'll take care of check-in for you. With automatic check-in, you'll get improved seat selection and earlier access to overhead storage. For only $10 one-way, it's a more convenient way to travel. NO FREE DRINK with EARLY BIRD Check-IN

We'll automatically check you in and assign your boarding position within 36 hours of your flight's departure - that's 12 hours before general boarding positions become available. While EarlyBird Check-InSM doesn't guarantee an A boarding position, it improves your seat selection options to help you get your favorite seat. AGAIN NO FREE DRINK.

Business Select A1-15, Early Bird A-16-30 and B1-60, and I have even seen it go as high as the C1-30 seats. Currently Early Bird check-in is $10.00
but going to 12.50 in early 2012 ( I think March 2013)

 

[Lear70]

AirTran is making money hand over fist right now, and because it is still marketing-separate from Southwest, can continue to do so without damaging the "Bags Fly Free" marketing campaign.

AirTran's fares came up in the 6 months after DOCC to be almost identical to Southwest fares (which were higher across the board in competing market segments), AND they kept the bag fees. The fare increases stuck (because they were still cheaper than almost everyone else out there on a regular basis), so AirTran has added a LOT to the bottom line at SWA with the bag fees. I don't see them giving that up anytime soon.

As long as they can keep brand awareness separate, it'll probably stay this way and won't change until the integration is complete and they see where the financials are when it's all combined with their newly-increased secondary fees before they do anything (and let a good amount of time pass from the "bags fly free" campaign so people don't flip out as badly).

I trust them to manage their revenue as they need to cover their expenses, that's way above my pay grade anyway, I simply expect to be compensated at the existing SWA CBA with regular increases for COLA moving forward. The cost side of the equation will continue to increase, it always does as employee longevity increases. Our job is to do our jobs 100%, their job is to manage the revenue side to cover our costs. Beyond that this debate is kind of silly... we're not management.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

SWA Bubba (and Jonjuan) gets it.

Prove it.

 

[climbhappy]

getting it is thinking your view is the one everyone must look through....i simply offer a different viewpoint....charging for a second bag stills lets you keep the integrity of a no fee for the 1st checked bag...obviously the "bags" fly free promo has to end.....they'll be forced to do this within 2 years ......we'll see what happens...

i say again, the public has the shortest memory and attention span...advertisers know it, political strategists know it....in fact many netflix suscribers came back once "genius" changed the policy and aborted segmenting their product line ...either way, SWA is a good airline , i fly on it and plan to again when i visit my kids in the states january...cheers:beer:

 

[redflyer65]

i simply offer a different viewpoint....charging for a second bag stills lets you keep the integrity of a no fee for the 1st checked bag

Exactly. The fact is that Gary will increase the charges but still allow the First Bag Free, is brilliant.

As much as the Genital like to say we are charging for bags, we won't be. He thinks he found a nugget knocking SW, in reality, it's nothing. Bags are still flying free.

RF

 

[General Lee]

Exactly. The fact is that Gary will increase the charges but still allow the First Bag Free, is brilliant.

As much as the Genital like to say we are charging for bags, we won't be. He thinks he found a nugget knocking SW, in reality, it's nothing. Bags are still flying free.

RF

Found a nugget? Like you do every time you check your bed in your room at LBB? Genius move? More like handcuffing himself due to those TV comercials. And if I were you, I would want the company to find as many revenue possibilities as they could before they come to you for handouts. Guess what Red? You're not always the lowest fare out there, and pax are starting to notice. Your profits over the last few years have not been stellar, especially since you don't have the fuel hedge advantage anymore. So, bags are flying free, and you may have to give more back during the next round of negotiations. Fantastic Red! Fantastic!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

I was thinking we would release some scope on larger RJs. Kinda like what Delta did. You know, guys flying DC9 size planes at a fraction of the cost at mainline.

Oh wait. We don't have any RJs. Sorry. That's FANTASTIC Genital.

Full Steam Ahead!

 

[General Lee]

I was thinking we would release some scope on larger RJs. Kinda like what Delta did. You know, guys flying DC9 size planes at a fraction of the cost at mainline.

Oh wait. We don't have any RJs. Sorry. That's FANTASTIC Genital.

Full Steam Ahead!

Yeah, you had a bunch of 100 seaters that you will pay more than $100 million to refurbish and then sub lease to DL, and then DL may buy them at the then current list price. What a great deal! Thanks guys. Instead you will continue to fly clunky old 735s and 733s. Awesome. What does GK want to pay you for those coming up here? What would he trade you to keep your higher rates? Good luck with that Red. You may have other, cheaper, people flying your routes soon. Oh wait, you already do. You pay the AT guys less for flying the same planes! Shame on you Red.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Yeah, you had a bunch of 100 seaters that you will pay more than $100 million to refurbish and then sub lease to DL, and then DL may buy them at the then current list price. What a great deal! Thanks guys. Instead you will continue to fly clunky old 735s and 733s. Awesome. What does GK want to pay you for those coming up here? What would he trade you to keep your higher rates? Good luck with that Red. You may have other, cheaper, people flying your routes soon. Oh wait, you already do. You pay the AT guys less for flying the same planes! Shame on you Red.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

That's your debate? Haha. Thanks for the laugh General. We are actually saving 300 million a year buy getting rid of the 717, so thank YOU.

When the full AAI integration is complete, those guys from the other terminal that you beat up on for so long will be making MORE than you. And that's FANTASTIC!

Old planes? You fly DC9's. That's funny. Oh, and 80% of our airframes are completely paid off. 3+ billion in the bank. I think we will be okay. And we don't have 10 billion in debt.

 

[PCL_128]

Where did this myth come from that the General was rude to AirTran guys prior to the merger? The General has never been anything but friendly to me, for years before the merger was announced. And I can't remember any anti-AirTran posts from him.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lets be honest, before SWA decided to buy AT, who made any posts about AT?

 

[RLAblows]

Lets be honest, before SWA decided to buy AT, who made any posts about AT?

ah yes, those were the days.

 

[freightdogfred]

Lets be honest, before SWA decided to buy AT, who made any posts about AT?

Thought SW had some in depth HR process to weed out dumb prikks

how did you slip thru?

 

[General Lee]

That's your debate? Haha. Thanks for the laugh General. We are actually saving 300 million a year buy getting rid of the 717, so thank YOU.

When the full AAI integration is complete, those guys from the other terminal that you beat up on for so long will be making MORE than you. And that's FANTASTIC!

Old planes? You fly DC9's. That's funny. Oh, and 80% of our airframes are completely paid off. 3+ billion in the bank. I think we will be okay. And we don't have 10 billion in debt.

Red,

Congrats! You outsourced some more new flying to people who your airline pays less, for the same plane! Hey, it's cheaper to do it, and SWAPA allows it........unbelievable....

Southwest Airlines Announces New Service Between Denver And San Jose Del Cabo/Los Cabos, Mexico Operated By Airtran Airways



DALLAS, Dec. 26, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- It's already time to put a bow on Spring Break travel plans and set sights South of the Border as Southwest Airlines and wholly owned subsidiary AirTran Airways announced today new international flights between Denver International Airport and SJD Los Cabos International Airport in Baja California, Mexico.
AirTran daily service on the new route begins March 10, 2013, and is open for sale now at both airtran dot com and southwest dot com with introductory fares as low as $189 one-way. These fares must be booked by 11:59 p.m. PST on Jan. 1, 2013, for travel between March 12, 2013, and April 24, 2013 (sale fare valid for travel Tuesdays and Wednesdays). See full fare rules below.

"As we continue preparations to connect the Southwest and AirTran route networks beginning early next year, we are excited to add another nonstop travel option to Mexico alongside our strong portfolio of domestic nonstop service in Denver," said Bob Jordan, Southwest Airlines' Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer and AirTran Airways President. AirTran began nonstop flights between Denver and Cancun in April.





REALLY? How can you have seperate groups, paid differently, on the same equipment, FOR YEARS???? WHY WOULD SWAPA ALLOW THAT? Oh, that's right, it's an "IT problem......." WOW..... And RED is in favor of this??? SWAPA should have been all over this, saying the big NO to seperate payscales. NOT GOOD.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Where did this myth come from that the General was rude to AirTran guys prior to the merger? The General has never been anything but friendly to me, for years before the merger was announced. And I can't remember any anti-AirTran posts from him.

Ty Webb and I used "debate loudly" back after 9-11. But, we became civil well before your SWA merger, or whatever you want to call it.....


Bye Bye---General Lee