Southwest's new plan to screw Airtran pilots

[Monster Buck]

I have to admit its funny watching you guys fight though. Not to mention you SWA guys are fighting each other on a board that was started(instigated) by a new hire at VA. Really? Never mind carry on.....:beer:

 

[Flyer1015]

It was a joke. Those with a sense of humor got it. Those who don't have one wanted the official news source for the article.

 

[Monster Buck]

It was a joke. Those with a sense of humor got it. Those who don't have one wanted the official news source for the article.

i know. the sad part is after it was known they still fought. I know you were joking around but you are playing with jokes about peoples lives they feel very strong about.

 

[redflyer65]

Your such a hypocrite. Knowing where you came from and now your the bucking rep for the anti outsourcing? Convenient for you to slam the "king of outsourcing(Delta/NWA) " you sucked off. Now at SWA you are the holier than thou anti "outsourcing" guy. What a joke. But hey "southwest would never do that"! Do as I say not as I did?

Hypocrite? That's funny. So blame every regional pilot for Mainline outsourcing? Yea, good luck with that debate. You lose.

Southwest has ironclad code share/scope and really doesn't outsource. Why don't you tell me about how Delta and others do it? Night and Day difference my friend.

RF

 

[Monster Buck]

Hypocrite? That's funny. So blame every regional pilot for Mainline outsourcing? Yea, good luck with that debate. You lose.

Southwest has ironclad code share/scope and really doesn't outsource. Why don't you tell me about how Delta and others do it? Night and Day difference my friend.

RF

Your response was so weak that I chuckled. An elementary attempt to avoid the subject with "So blame every regional pilot for Mainline outsourcing? Yea, good luck with that debate.". You did exactly what you just accused the general of doing just a few pages back. Pot meet Kettle. You cut your teeth in this industry with the small jet outsourcing that you now condemn. SWA "we would never do that" "Southwest has ironclad code share/scope and really doesn't outsource." The mighty SWA pilot, born and bred, that would never stoop so low as to condone.

Yes, hypocrite, spot on.

 

[KNOTS]

Southwest has ironclad code share/scope and really doesn't outsource. Why don't you tell me about how Delta and others do it? Night and Day difference my friend.

RF

http://www.southwest.com/html/air/intl/index.html

 

[redflyer65]

Knots,

If it's your point that we outsource some smaller stations, then yes we do....only if they have FIVE departures a day. That's what the company and the union agreed to.

We only codeshare with Volaris on FIVE cities. That's it.

We have ZERO RJs or outsourced feed like most other airlines.



Monster,

Why don't you explain your position about why it's horrible to take a regional job VS the Mainline guys that gave it away? In detail please.

If I could have flight instructed or banner towed until getting hired by a major, I would have gladly done that. But you know that's not the name the of the game put in place by the majors.

Are you actually insinuating that most regional pilots think unlimited scope is good for the industry? That's were you've taken this little debate, and I don't even think you've realized it (in a feeble attempt to try and box me in.)

To put it another way, if I HAD applied, and HAD gotten hired at Delta I would do everything I could to rein in scope. Even if it meant NOT taking a payraise dangled in front of me by Anderson. DALPA just allowed RJs big enough to hold enough people to fill a DC9. They got played.

 

[FlyinGuy]

There've been a few that have acknowledged that we got much worse than what an arbitrator would have likely considered "fair". I appreciate those folks acknowledging that, and have likewise acknowledged that there may be pilots at Southwest who are suffering too.

How nice. You appreciate those that acknowledge where you are, but the funny thing is you cannot acknowledge where many of the SWA f/o's are. You continually campaign for how bad you have it, but you use words like "may" when it comes to what some on the SWA side are going through. On another thread you say that "some" SWA pilots might have some pain for a "short" period of time. You keep on campaigning.....

 

[Lear70]

That's ok. When I'm flying with guys in the left seat who were hired a year or even two after I was, we'll talk about the definition of "permanent harm". How's that?

Or we can just agree to disagree. How's that?

 

[SWA/FO]

That's ok. When I'm flying with guys in the left seat who were hired a year or even two after I was, we'll talk about the definition of "permanent harm". How's that?

Also with an agreement voted on by my peers 83%..... with more money to my career earnings... you forgot to add...:crying:

 

[PCL_128]

You appreciate those that acknowledge where you are, but the funny thing is you cannot acknowledge where many of the SWA f/o's are.

You mean the ones who are all senior to us, even the ones hired after us? Yeah, I really feel their pain.

 

[Lear70]

Also with an agreement voted on by my peers 83%..... with more money to my career earnings... you forgot to add...:crying:

In the last 10 years of my career there MAY be more money. Assuming the airline continues at a modest 2% yearly growth long term. In the meantime I'm even money from a stand-alone AAI, I just get to make it from the right seat with the same rough bidding power I'd have had from the left at AAI after upgrade.

You guys talk about the money so much,,, but for many of us there's more to it than just the ca$h.

Like I said. We can just agree to disagree. You have your opinion. I have mine. And none of us are changing our minds.

 

[SWA/FO]

Sounds like you guys should have played this one a little differently.

What was being said before the vote? "Vote no, he is bull********************ting us". "We will get relative seniority?"

Apparently more AT Pilots wanted to kill their union leadership then listen to them. You should have gotten more then 272 peeps to vote "no"

What do you think our side feels like, now knowing he wanted to dump 717s all along. Its not all rosey over here either PCL. I hear about it everyday..... everyday.

 

[SWA/FO]

there's more to it than just the ca$h.

true dat!

 

[FlyinGuy]

I will never try and change your mind about your reality. How bout you quit trying to change everyone's mind about what the SWA f/o is going through from now until retirement. Deal? Because just like I don't see your position, you will never see ours!

 

[SWA/FO]

My question was about the behind the scenes "no" vote movement.

 

[scoreboardII]

Merry Christmas lets knock it off for a week...

 

[Lear70]

Merry Christmas lets knock it off for a week...

Absolutely.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

You mean the ones who are all senior to us, even the ones hired after us? Yeah, I really feel their pain.

You mean the way it should be? But instead of by 2 years, it should have been 5 or 10? Or 20?

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey, how much cash on hand did tranny have when they sold themselves to SWA?

 

[jonjuan]

Hey, how much cash on hand did tranny have when they sold themselves to SWA?

What does a companies cash on hand have anything to do with pilots?

 

[SWA/FO]

What does a companies cash on hand have anything to do with pilots?

It shows one how healthy a company is.

I didn't know we had to talk about Pilots only. I thought we could discus actual airlines.

 

[RLAblows]

Hey, how much cash on hand did tranny have when they sold themselves to SWA?

Maybe someone can confirm this, but I believe it was around 800 million.

 

[PCL_128]

Nah, less than half that. It was plenty for our operation, though. Analysts generally want to see more than 10% of annual revenue in cash or liquid investments. AirTran was over 15%.

 

[scoreboardII]

AT had $540 million cash on hand, 10K Feb 2010

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/AirTran_Holdings_(AAI)/Filing/10-K/2010/F46739705

Guys, if you have never looked at your airlines 10K, start, you'll be the first one to realize things are going south, or things are going great.

 

[PCL_128]

AT had $540 million cash on hand, 10K Feb 2010

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/AirTran_Holdings_(AAI)/Filing/10-K/2010/F46739705

Guys, if you have never looked at your airlines 10K, start, you'll be the first one to realize things are going south, or things are going great.

A significant chunk of that wasn't really cash. It was a loan. If memory serves, the loan was over $100 million. Real cash was closer to $400 million. Still a fine amount for an airline our size, though.

 

[scoreboardII]

Cash is cash. Debt is under another column.

 

[PCL_128]

Cash is cash. Debt is under another column.

No, cash from a loan appears as both cash and debt.

 

[vixin]

Hate to say it but PCL is correct.




Quote:
01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?


Quote:


RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."




Quote:
2010-04-22
Quote:


ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.




Quote:
2009-02-06
Quote:


Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.

Quote:


AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) — AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.

 

[SWA/FO]

Somebody said the other day "That if the AT Pilots did go on strike that they had planned to shut it all down in 3 days" (Like Management didn't have enough cash to weather the storm).

So I started wondering? Then I posted the cash question here... when JuanJuan jumped my $hit... like he has somehting to hide. What you hiding JJ?