Southwest's Artful Approach

[SWA/FO]

Funny how you guys all complained how we were "dragging the industry down" just a couple years ago. Now we're at or near the top of the heap and you predict our doom and gloom? Which is it? Are we dragging the industry down or setting the bar?

next they will be picking on the color of our airplanes..!

You don't set the bar by bringing others down below you. You set the bar by RAISING it above what the best had, and you sir, are no where near what the best had 5 years ago. So to answer your question....You're dragging the industry down.

What ever dude, We just can't win...

You brought yourself down, we had nothing to do with your F-uped
management or union. Our checks keep coming in. You don't have to be the highest paid - you just need the money to CONTINUE to roll in.

"Lets blame Southwest Airlines - cus my airline sucks". "Lets blame Southwest Airlines for not watching out for ATA" "Lets make fun of Southwest when things are going great at our airline". "Lets b!tch and call them arrogant and cry like little babies :bawling: when Southwest is doing ok."

the SWA/FO

imp:

 

[canyonblue]

If I put my SWA shoes on I'd have to agree with you. ATA pilots don't want to become the low labor cost SWA clone either. I'd love to see ATA and SWA pilots get together and work out an agreement that would not allow either group to be used against each other to drive pilot pay lower at SWA.

I can think of a few ideas that our unions could implement, it would be easier and painless if an agreement was hammered out sooner than later.

Well said, both post's. Now for those of you are not personally connected to this issue, find another thread to post on. No jacking around, either we merge or get used, both of us.

 

[canyonblue]

The thing is is when people lose touch with reality and act like their airline is infallable that's when divine intervention comes in and BOOM. The is problem is people like you wouldn't even learn from a lesson like that.

Have you read what your fellow Cargo pilots post? Read a little then come back and let us know if you feel the same way about them.

 

[GuppyWN]

ATA Fan, What's your idea of our two groups working together to protect each pilot group?

Gup

 

[atafan]

ATA Fan, What's your idea of our two groups working together to protect each pilot group?

My disclaimer: I'm just throwing ideas up and these ideas are only my own and have not been fully thought out. Please feel free to offer your own debate but don't get bogged down in specifics.

First identify the potential problem that SWA pilots may have with this codeshare agreement in the future.

I understand that SWA has not bought ATA and has not publicly stated they even desire to do this. However. SWA clearly, in my opinion, is directing, through placed management and now our new owners the remolding of ATA to serve SWA. Could SWA decide to slow growth at SWA and support growth at ATA? This is not in the publicly stated plan but I shall remind you that the full scope of the codeshare and alliance has not been revealed either and may never be revealed. Expect the unexpected with Gary Kelly and his team and you will not be surprised.

You may say it can't happen because we have scope! Everything is negotiable and I don't believe for a second that the pilots of any airline, even SWA, will control when and where an airline ultimately will fly after the dusts settles.

One option: ATA and SWA pilots hammer out some sort of pilot integration into one list and any subsequent hiring at either airline would be added to the bottom of this master list should there ever be a buyout. If SWA curtails expansion and ATA expands there could be some protection for SWA pilots and of course this should be a two way street with appropriate fences in place. I know that there are a host of problems with this solution but I still think that the two pilot groups need to get together and at least discuss OPTIONS.

Prepared for incoming "friendly fire".

 

[Pickle]

The ATA MEC chairman tried to talk to his counterpart at SWAPA over a year ago about the potential whipsawwing of the two pilot groups, the SWAPA leader said, in so many words, he didn't really care to hear about it - you ATA ALPA guys worry about ATA, SWAPA will worry about SWA.. This was, like I said, over a year ago, so it was before SWA came into DEN and RSW, and before ATA did pretty much nothing other than SWA codeshare. There is a ready made "b-scale" sitting right there at B-25 and -26, and it is too bad that SWAPA didn't realize ths earlier, because it could (not will, but could) get very ugly.

As to what atafan said about a merging of the two lists, I for one feel that will never ever happen. There are too many "x-factors". There are too many FE/FOs, there are too many people without the 1000 or 1300 turbine PIC or what ever the number is now, there are too many people who have interviewed with SWA 1, 2, or 3 times already and did not get hired.

 

[xanderman]

ummm.... okay.

I think this speaks for itself. And you call me selfish. Thanks for your support.

Look, no matter how I put it you will be defensive towards any comment that may paint SWA in a negative light. Fair enough. However, that does not change the fact that somebody someday will find a way to beat SWA. It has happened all throughout history.

Andy

P.S. the really stand-up thing to do when you're on top is to show a little humility. Just be a man and admit you sounded like an a$$hole when you made the, "They better not take any of our flying"! comment.

 

[SWA/FO]

P.S. the really stand-up thing to do when you're on top is to show a little humility. Just be a man and admit you sounded like an a$$hole when you made the, "They better not take any of our flying"! comment.

Again.... if you want to make the decisions in your house, keep your house in order.

If we even gave 1/2 the crap we got over the years - some of you would be crying. But WE DON'T.

Clearing the air, correcting false statements is not bragging in my book. Stating a union stance or belief is not showing less humility then the next guy.

 

[njcapt]

I hope I don't get asked about this at the open house on the 10th.

Any suggestions for a tactful, honest reply?

Just smile and say "I'd just happy to get a chance to work here".






Then you can meet me in the hotel bar where we can work off the stress.

See you on the 10th, Hal.

 

[Mugs]

If we even gave 1/2 the crap we got over the years - some of you would be crying. But WE DON'T.

Really? Heck I've peaked in on this board since 1997. I have to say that of all the responses I have seen, the one I got when I evidently ticked off one of your "SWAPA Bro's" took the cake. That of course was being informed that I had been "reported" to the guy keeping "the list" of "SWA haters" and would be added to that list. Unbelievable. The thought of one of you guys furiously entering screen names to "the list" after an evening on Flightinfo is just hilarious. Unfortunately in your world, taking the opposite side of an argument involving SWA makes you a "hater." Between that and "the list", it is very cult-like behavior.