Southwest Upgrade

[strobzz]

Thank you,a honest non-selfserveing answer.

 

[elcid]

Wow, I'm kind of embarrassed. The childish banter between people who don't even know each other is pretty over the top.

Back on subject,

To answer the upgrade question with any accuracy is nearly impossible. It obviously varies depending on when you were hired, growth, Airtran Aquisition/SLI, oil prices, etc. The facts are that in the next 10 years about 1000 SWA pilots will reach age 65. So, do the math and you can tell that, based on retirements alone (only one part of the equation) pilot X needs a certain number of retirements before he becomes pilot 3000 of 6000 (absent growth or an Airtran deal). Both will probably happen. Factor in 10 pilots per every aircraft we grow by, guess how much we grow, and you are probably close to anyone's best guess. Lot's of variables. My crystal ball says 12-15 with good behavior for a mid seniority FO. For what it's worth, to me, oil is possibly the scariest factor of all.

 

[On Your Six]

You are beyond hilarious. Nothing you post is even remotely based in fact. But, you think you're dialed in with the industry. You are really wasting your time as an fo slinging gear for DAL, you need to hookup with the UAL Scab Von Cordle and peddle your wears as an airline analyst. Somebody would pay good money for crap like that.

Remember Delta Shuttle?
Remeber Song?
Remember the A fund?
Remember the smokin' hot contract of 2000?
Remember when DAL was upgrading in 13 months?

You paint a picture like it's 1999. How did all that work out for DAL? UAL? NWA? USAir? AMR? . I had friends at OAL's that were cocky and obnoxious just like you who thought we were all fools for hanging our hats at dumb lil ole Southworst Trailways. That is until I upgraded and they were either furloughed or sitting reserve. Then the somber musings were so embarrassing to watch I would intentionally play off how great life at SWA is and how remarkably well things worked out. But, I won't tempt the gods of faith. It's better to be lucky than good. And, it's all about luck.

All you've got is your mouth and your lip service. You can't back it up with YEARS of success, your paycheck, your schedule, your net worth.

I can. Sorry that hurts you so much. It's obvious your career plan failed you miserably. Take solace in the fact you are not alone. Now your only satisfaction in life is to try and make yourself feel better by trolling flight info to hijack as many SWA threads as you can with baseless information about how great you want us to believe DAL is and how $hitty YOU KNOW SWA is. I'm sure you were saying the same thing about UAL when you were there.

DAL was a once great airline but they've got a long way to go to get back to the top and they're going to have to do it with the ever present threat of RJ's surrounding them everywhere like hornets from a nest. The DAL pilots let that genie out of the bottle. Good luck getting it back in.

SWA pilots were smart enough to keep the RJ's and codeshare at bay, even if it cost us money upfront. Just one more example of the intelligent negotiating skills of our stupid little podunk, non-national union.

SWA has a history of success and a history of sharing that success with it's employees. Complete with 39 straight years of profit, and never having furloughed. All the frustrated legacy pilot arrogance in the world, ain't going to change that.

So, you and Gen Lee keep posting your crap. I've seen and heard it before. You can write it as many times as you want. It's not going to change the facts. You made poor career choices, or your were unlucky in your decisions and now you are where you are and you are at the mercy of the seniority system to change your lot in life. Welcome to the bigs rookie.

Maybe someone will buy you and you can fight with every penny ALPA has for a favorable integration and maybe you can steal a captain seat that way. If not, you can always de-certify ALPA, start your own in house union, and refute the award from the arbitrator, even though you like to crow about "binding arbitration" being the end all be all! That;s working out well isn't it?

Thanks Capt Corndog. Sounds like you are going crazy, probably due to merger anxiety and SLI fears. Let me fill you in on many things you have wrong. I am a newbie here, but I was at United until 9-11, and have flown a variety of planes since then, so my experience level is there. I could have gone to SWA before 9-11, when it really wasn't a desireable place, having to pay for your type to fly a 737 domestically. The pay back then wasn't great either, but thanks to United and then Delta pay rates, you got yours higher.

Do you even know anything about the Delta Shuttle? It is still around, doing well on the BOS to LGA route. The other half, LGA to DCA, ran into trouble because the Amtrack Accella train is more convienent to Grand Central Station in Manhattan, so Delta put E175s on that portion. The BOS-LGA portion is flown with A319s now (I've flown it) and it does well.

From what I have heard, Song was a great product, but the plane was too big on those routes. The IFE system was great, and most DL 757s and 767s have it now. Your IFE consists of your loud mouth flight attendants that might be funny, or obnoxious. Airtran had a good XM radio system, but you will be dumping that for some reason.

The A fund is still around for the Captains I fly with (FNWA). The FDAL guys I know and my situation consists of a 13 percent DC fund that is not bad. I also contribute to my own 401K at the same time. And thanks to your senior pilots at Southwest, I will be able to work to 65 and retire later with some cash, in 20 plus years from now. And unlike you, I will be flying widebodies to Europe and Asia by then as Captain. You will still be enroute to Cleveland.

Do you really think I don't know how SWA is? I don't have friends there? Just because you don't have friends at OTHER airlines is your fault. I know you and your own SWA buddies like to sit around the fireplace and talk trash about Airtran, and then you guys start to realize how you are going to get screwed by an arbitrator, and then all start to cry together. It's sad I bet.

You are right that Delta does have a lot of RJs, but high oil will start to take care of that problem. I think the CEO said they parked 120 50 seaters in the past couple years, and obviously more to come. And you said your SWAPA negotiators were smart enough to keep RJs out. Can they keep Airtran out, and the arbitrated SLI? I.....don't......think......so. Sorry. Airtran guys will be mixed in within your current list, and they will get huge raises, and there aint one thing you can do about it.

Do you really think General Lee and I made a bad career choice? We didn't pay for our type ratings, that's for sure. He seems happy flying his International stuff, and I am very happy where I am at now. I know I will be moving up the list at a fairly fast pace when the retirements hit in force very soon, unlike your stagnation with the younger Airtran group and lack of scheduled retirements. And when our pay hits and beats yours, what will be the difference then? Our contract is up next year, and then we will use your rates as our BASELINE, and then go up from there. Then our pay, along with flying variety, will steer most of your junior guys over to us. I couldn't imagine doing what you do for 5 years, let alone 20 more. Your pay is great for now, but it won't be the highest for long.

Have fun during your binding arbitration. I look forward to your meltdown.


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Have fun during your binding arbitration. I look forward to your meltdown.


OYS

Could you please define "fair and equitable" for me?

Gup

 

[Roomwithaview]

lmao at that last post oys. wrong on so many points But predictable. i'll be glad to compare w-2's anytime. i was thinking delta express as well. enjoy your new e195's

 

[us1023]

You gotta hand it to OYS, he/she seems to know everything SWA is going to do, everything SWAPA is going to do, exactly how SWA pilots think, feel , eat, sleep and sh!t. I just can't figure out why he/she is so consumed with it.....

 

[On Your Six]

Could you please define "fair and equitable" for me?

Gup

The arbitrator will decide that, not me. He/she/they will look at the facts, and your lawyers will be allowed to argue them. The problem is you guys don't think Airtran brings much to the table, and the artbitrators may think otherwise. Obviously GK and the bankers think it is important. Look at what he is saying in the papers these days. I am sure ALPA will use those articles as some proof, and the arbitrators are probably reading those articles right now.

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

You gotta hand it to OYS, he/she seems to know everything SWA is going to do, everything SWAPA is going to do, exactly how SWA pilots think, feel , eat, sleep and sh!t. I just can't figure out why he/she is so consumed with it.....

Great 3rd post. Anyway, ever since I started reading the SWA posts about what they KNEW would happen to the ungreatful Airtran pilots, I knew I had to get involved. And, I don't think SWAPA will be able to do anything about the SLI, even though they have some suggestions. Where do I get my opinions about SWA and what SWAPA may or may not do? By just reading the SWA pilots' posts on FI.

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

lmao at that last post oys. wrong on so many points But predictable. i'll be glad to compare w-2's anytime. i was thinking delta express as well. enjoy your new e195's

Oh, so you made a mistake about The Delta Shuttle? That wasn't your only mistake. And it's great your W2 is big for now. Enjoy it while it lasts. And if we do get E195s, those 13 month upgrades will be back. Let's hope we get some soon!

OYS

 

[Whaler]

Great 3rd post. Anyway, ever since I started reading the SWA posts about what they KNEW would happen to the ungreatful Airtran pilots, I knew I had to get involved. And, I don't think SWAPA will be able to do anything about the SLI, even though they have some suggestions. Where do I get my opinions about SWA and what SWAPA may or may not do? By just reading the SWA pilots' posts on FI.

OYS

Cause what you are doing here on FI makes a difference in real life...

 

[On Your Six]

Cause what you are doing here on FI makes a difference in real life...

Some people get really upset, apparently. I am just trying to help you avoid a meltdown after your eventual SLI.


OYS

 

[us1023]

Great 3rd post. Anyway, ever since I started reading the SWA posts about what they KNEW would happen to the ungreatful Airtran pilots, I knew I had to get involved. And, I don't think SWAPA will be able to do anything about the SLI, even though they have some suggestions. Where do I get my opinions about SWA and what SWAPA may or may not do? By just reading the SWA pilots' posts on FI.

OYS

The thing is that you don't post as if it is your "opinion" you post as if you "know". Anyway, my 3rd post, you are correct on that...about the only thing you are correct on. I just don't feel the need, like you evidently do, to throw my two cents worth in on everything that is none of my business...hint, hint.

 

[waveflyer]

OYS-
One comment- I think it's telling, being labor in great need of payraises yourself, that you think raising wages in ATL will automatically force increased airfares.

Do you think the opposite just might be true? Why or why not? Or has our past performance - and deltas back in the day- meant nothing? Have you bought into standard airline mgmt thinking?

Be careful about how much criticism you throw around- SWA mgmt is the only one that believes in the ECONOMIC value of paying their people.

 

[Roomwithaview]

the Beauty of the internet is that ur idiotic rants and false prophecies will be here for us to reflect back on when things don't work out the way you planned, again.

 

[On Your Six]

OYS-
One comment- I think it's telling, being labor in great need of payraises yourself, that you think raising wages in ATL will automatically force increased airfares.

Do you think the opposite just might be true? Why or why not? Or has our past performance - and deltas back in the day- meant nothing? Have you bought into standard airline mgmt thinking?

Be careful about how much criticism you throw around- SWA mgmt is the only one that believes in the ECONOMIC value of paying their people.

What? It's basic economics that you will raise fares to help pay for the merger and rising AT employees rates. I think it is great, since Delta's main competition in ATL will be paying their FOs SWA rates soon. That will help us come negotiation time. That is what you did too when Delta and United had higher rates back in the day. And I know a bit about bad management, watching UAL go through all of this mess since 9-11. I actually think the current DL management is a big improvement, and has a lot going for it. Will they fall over and give us a huge raise for nothing? Probably not, but the AT guys getting a huge raise will help our cause. That will also increase fares for SWA to pay for it all. Your fares aren't always the cheapest, you know....

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

the Beauty of the internet is that ur idiotic rants and false prophecies will be here for us to reflect back on when things don't work out the way you planned, again.

I am looking forward to it. Your meltdown will be a classic.

OYS

 

[redflyer65]

I am looking forward to it. Your meltdown will be a classic.

OYS

Your disdain for Southwest is classic. I'm not buying the 'setting the record straight for the AAI guys' anymore.

You want to see something bad happen to all the SW guys for once. In working for a great airline and getting top pay...those guys need to feel some pain! Sorry your so miserabile with your career choices.

 

[On Your Six]

Your disdain for Southwest is classic. I'm not buying the 'setting the record straight for the AAI guys' anymore.

You want to see something bad happen to all the SW guys for once. In working for a great airline and getting top pay...those guys need to feel some pain! Sorry your so miserabile with your career choices.

I feel happy where I am at NOW. That is all that matters to me. And I don't want to see bad things happen to SWA pilots. Your merger is a GOOD thing, but you seem to think it is a bad thing. Why is that? Your company will be stronger as a result, right? GK and the bankers think so. Why again do you think it is something bad? Arbitration is a natural process if your two MECs can't get a fair decision together. You equate that as a bad thing, and that is bad itself. Certain SWA pilots on this board may have a meltdown, and because of their current attitudes, that will be satisfying, but overall your merger is a good thing for you and the AT guys. If they change their confrontational attitudes towards their future "brothers", I will change mine. Simple as that. See ya.


OYS

 

[Roomwithaview]

Oys

I feel happy where I am at NOW. That is all that matters to me. And I don't want to see bad things happen to SWA pilots. Your merger is a GOOD thing, but you seem to think it is a bad thing. Why is that? Your company will be stronger as a result, right? GK and the bankers think so. Why again do you think it is something bad? Arbitration is a natural process if your two MECs can't get a fair decision together. You equate that as a bad thing, and that is bad itself. Certain SWA pilots on this board may have a meltdown, and because of their current attitudes, that will be satisfying, but overall your merger is a good thing for you and the AT guys. If they change their confrontational attitudes towards their future "brothers", I will change mine. Simple as that. See ya.

That's a rip. Do you know what the definition of a sociopath is?

 

[ivauir]

What "confrontational attitude?"

As an outsider you may have no awareness of the efforts to welcome the AAI pilots. SWAPA used OUR dues money to throw them welcoming parties. SWAPA established a web site to provide up to date information.

ALPA has been less than cordial.

 

[Whaler]

I feel happy where I am at NOW. That is all that matters to me. And I don't want to see bad things happen to SWA pilots. Your merger is a GOOD thing, but you seem to think it is a bad thing. Why is that? Your company will be stronger as a result, right? GK and the bankers think so. Why again do you think it is something bad? Arbitration is a natural process if your two MECs can't get a fair decision together. You equate that as a bad thing, and that is bad itself. Certain SWA pilots on this board may have a meltdown, and because of their current attitudes, that will be satisfying, but overall your merger is a good thing for you and the AT guys. If they change their confrontational attitudes towards their future "brothers", I will change mine. Simple as that. See ya.


OYS

Obviously not. Basic human pysch 101. If you were truly happy and self confident you wouldn't be so hungry to see SWA guys get a perceived kick in the junk. It seems that your pilot group as a whole has a huge inferiority complex when it comes to SWA.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Whaler

It seems that your pilot group as a whole has a huge inferiority complex when it comes to SWA.

Don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch-Hell for all we know he's not even a pilot at all. At least on the prune you have to be a Southwest Pilot to participate. Rules is Rules.

FWIW, I have many a good friend at DAL (and NWA) and his attitude is nowhere near indicative of theirs. They know how this industry is and they know it's not about divide and conquer. When they were on top I was happy for them and I was cheering for them. I remember going through their 2000 contract in my buddy's basement and saying, "man-you guys got all this!" It was great and I wish it would have been sustainable. It was very short lived and the fast upgrades of Delta Express and Song quickly went by the wayside. There was no cheering from anyone.

This d*ckhead has no idea about the concept of solidarity. He claims to be about "doing what's fair" but I can guarantee you if the shoe were on the other foot and it was DAL buying AAI, he would be singing a different tune, complete with holier than thou postings about what is rightfully his and blah blah blah.

Enjoy the sweetness of knowing that the people department got this one right and didn't stick us with this tool for the rest of our careers.

:beer:

 

[ILUVURBANMYERS]

I will say I commute to work on Delta EVERY week and without exception they ALL have been nothing but awesome to me! That includes all the former NWA crews as well. I ride Delta to Europe 3 times+ a year and the entire crew has been stellar without exception! In the end we all took the first job offered. Through luck it MAY have turned out better for some than others but we are all are cut from the same cloth so a little SHUT THE FUC* up from the haters would be greatly appreciated from the majority here. I for one welcome the Air Tran pilots and hope for a most fruitful future. 18 year SWA lucky not smart average guy.

 

[scoreboardII]

I am looking forward to it. Your meltdown will be a classic.

OYS

Me thinks she doth protest to much.

Welcome to my "Isle of Exile":

Ignore list
On Your Six

 

[dojetdriver]

Remember Delta Express?
Remember Delta Shuttle?
Remeber Song?
Remember the A fund?
Remember the smokin' hot contract of 2001?
Remember when DAL was upgrading in 13 months?

All good points, just one addition and a minor correction. UAL was contract 2000.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I am looking forward to it. Your meltdown will be a classic.

OYS

It is ironic though when I hear a Delta pilot mention how cocky and arrogant SWA pilots are...that's like a hooker calling a stripper a W#@$%. Delta invented arrogance, double-brested jacket and all.

 

[RJ Bum]

All good points, just one addition and a minor correction. UAL was contract 2000.

I used to love the United +1 stickers. Aw the days when the bar was somewhat maintained and raised... Why all the bickering?? Bottom line is that CURRENTLY SWA has the bar set and we all need to get back to the +1 days.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Amen RJ bum

 

[Tripower455]

And unlike you, I will be flying widebodies to Europe and Asia by then as Captain. You will still be enroute to Cleveland.


OYS

Just a little perspective.

My old man got hired by Pan Am in '66, and if you told him he'd retire in '96 from Delta (which he did), he'd have laughed you out of the room, since Delta was little more than a regional at the time.

When the Pan Am guys went over to Delta in '91, they were underwhelmed with the way Delta ran the international ops, since Delta was still relatively new at it and most of those guys had 25-30+ years experience doing nothing but international.

The bottom line is that you never know what's gonna happen in this industry. We might be going to CLE in 20 years, we might be going to Narita, or we might be out of business. Who knows. I just hope we last another 19.

Oh, and don't blame age 65 on us either. It took ALPA to make it change. Our guys had as much effect as Don Quixote had on his windmills for the 20 years or so they wasted our union dues trying to change it.

 

[SWA/FO]

Age 65 went through FAST once ALPA got onboard. It became their baby.