Southwest to build new international terminal at HOU

[Flopgut]

You realize SWA is footing the bill to build the terminal 100%? This is as free market as it can get, If the other airlines want to play, let them build their own gates.

You might own this new Hobby terminal, but Mexicans for example, definitely own Mexico. So if these foreign govts take exception to the fact that their own airlines can't get a fair shot at Hobby customers, don't be surprised if they limit your flying.

 

[texman]

You might own this new Hobby terminal, but Mexicans for example, definitely own Mexico. So if these foreign govts take exception to the fact that their own airlines can't get a fair shot at Hobby customers, don't be surprised if they limit your flying.

Complete BS! Not true at all. Do you know the elected prez of Mexico? He wants to grow the Mexico economy. He will work to make that happen. The Texas Mexican national population (Rich) is growing like weeds. The relationship between Texas an Mexico is growing leaps and bounds. SWA is the largest domestic carrier. Hobby will grow! Cal did it via outsource Express jet. Politics. Get your facts strait.

 

[scoreboardII]

You might own this new Hobby terminal, but Mexicans for example, definitely own Mexico. So if these foreign govts take exception to the fact that their own airlines can't get a fair shot at Hobby customers, don't be surprised if they limit your flying.

Mexicans own Mexico. Wow, news flash.

Free enterprise is at work here, no collusion, no kickbacks, no under the table deals to try and keep anyone out of Hobby. If the Mexicans want to fly to Hobby, let the Mexicans build their own Terminal.

Do you really think SWA doesn't already have the skids greased South of the border?

I sense a severe case of sour grapes.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You might own this new Hobby terminal, but Mexicans for example, definitely own Mexico. So if these foreign govts take exception to the fact that their own airlines can't get a fair shot at Hobby customers, don't be surprised if they limit your flying.

I doubt they will.

The reason that SWA is building this terminal is because no one else has wanted to fly international out of Hobby, and therefore, the airport never saw it worth their while to build international facilities. Hardly anyone else flies much domestic into there; why would they want their international operation there? You guys don't.

We wanted four gates to fly International from there, so we're financing it ourselves, since no one else would. We're even including a spare gate, for anyone else who may be interested (which thus far, totals exactly nobody). What is your big hang up here? If a lot of people wanted to fly international from there, then the airport itself would build or expand a larger such facility, since that would be in their interest. Trust me, if this move of ours spurs more international interest out of Hobby, then the airport will do exactly that.

Are you really griping that since we're building something for ourselves that nobody else wanted, we should use our money to build YOU some stuff as well? Stuff that you never wanted before?

We both know this is really about Unical keeping their Houston Intl monopoly in place. Your company's argument that we should do our intl flying out of IAH is a red herring--you know we can't do that, since our US customers arrive in Houston at Hobby. I suppose your idea of "fair competition" is that your customers arrive in Houston, and then walk a few gates to board their international segment; while our customers fly into Hobby, then collect their baggage, leave the airport, take an hour taxi ride up to IAH, and then repeat the wonderful TSA experience to enter a new airport, recheck their bags, and then find a gate for their international segment. In other words, your idea of "fair" is that we don't get to do crap, and you get to keep your international monopoly.

My idea of "fair competition" is that you fly wherever you want from whatever airport you want, and we'll do the same. You don't tell us where to fly from/to, and we won't tell you. You run your business, we'll run ours, and we'll both have whatever customers we can get.

By the way, do you really think southern international aviation authorities are going to limit our flying in any way because we didn't use our money to build crap for other airlines, at an airport that nobody else wanted to fly to their country from? Are you kidding, Flopgut? They can't wait for us to bring people to them; as many planefuls as we can. That's more and more tourist dollars spent there.

Bubba

 

[texman]

Bubba your spot on! This will be the NAFTA of the airlines.

 

[Flopgut]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it. I tried to help what was left of my airline defend the free market in Houston, and I ended up watching while the quasi-ethical Houston mayor refused to gavel out your applause at the Council meeting and let you rub it in. So that's what I'm still pissed about.

Big cities in different countries build big airports, and then all the airlines use them. We compete directly, or we partner in some cases, but the airports are the market. You're expecting the red carpet be rolled out at their airports and don't intend to do the same for them. Do you not think Volaris, Interjet and Aero Mexico don't realize using Hobby will connect them directly to your network? One or two of them will want in on that. I hope awareness builds after the routes are announced as to how little opportunity for competition you've offered, and that before it's done you've got a half dozen airlines wanting in. you're hiding behind a mayor that isn't going to have any sway South of the border.

 

[SWA Bubba]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it. I tried to help what was left of my airline defend the free market in Houston, and I ended up watching while the quasi-ethical Houston mayor refused to gavel out your applause at the Council meeting and let you rub it in. So that's what I'm still pissed about.

Yes, we've seen your idea of a "free market," as I described in my post above: one where YOUR airline dictates terms to MY airline. No thanks. (By the way, you should take an economics class to learn the meaning of that term.)

Big cities in different countries build big airports, and then all the airlines use them. We compete directly, or we partner in some cases, but the airports are the market. You're expecting the red carpet be rolled out at their airports and don't intend to do the same for them. Do you not think Volaris, Interjet and Aero Mexico don't realize using Hobby will connect them directly to your network? One or two of them will want in on that. I hope awareness builds after the routes are announced as to how little opportunity for competition you've offered, and that before it's done you've got a half dozen airlines wanting in. you're hiding behind a mayor that isn't going to have any sway South of the border.

Yup, covered that too. It's not Southwest's job to provide "opportunity for competition" to other airlines; it's the job of the airports and aviation authorities. If and when Volaris, Interjet, etc. want to operate out of Hobby, and have serious intentions, then the airport itself will build or expand international facilities there. That's how it works, Flop. That's how it's always worked. But I suspect that you don't really want that, since you put up such a stink about having to compete against ONE airline flying international out of Houston. I can imagine how much you'll bitch if others join in.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it....

You know, I wondered what you were talking about with you "kicked Southwest's ass" comment a few posts back. Thanks for clarifying it. You meant when we stopped flying out of IAH. Got it. We had one gate there and flew a couple of flights a day to Dallas. That was it--one city pair, either two or three times daily, depending on the day of the week. It was a limited experiment, and we couldn't make it work, so we left. Bravo for you--you "kicked our ass."

Here's the irony for you, Flop--that's actually how American capitalist competition is supposed to work. You did it there--good for you! Each competitor works its own brand and business model, and the consumer decides who they like. (It's not where one side uses threats or questionable legal maneuvers to keep the competition from exercising their business model, and instead tries to force them to run their business in a way everyone knows is impossible.)

You guys should try doing more of this. You know, actual capitalist competition (instead of "competition by fiat"). It's the American way.

Good luck, Flopgut, and as they say, may the best airline win!

Bubba

 

[dicko]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it

So, after doing that you want a piece of the pie at Hobby ? I see. Can you see why that doesn't make sense to anybody except you ?

'Spite' is not a business practice. Despite what Smisek thinks. The proof is in the performance of your company.

 

[Flopgut]

You know, I wondered what you were talking about with you "kicked Southwest's ass" comment a few posts back. Thanks for clarifying it. You meant when we stopped flying out of IAH. Got it. We had one gate there and flew a couple of flights a day to Dallas. That was it--one city pair, either two or three times daily, depending on the day of the week. It was a limited experiment, and we couldn't make it work, so we left. Bravo for you--you "kicked our ass."

Here's the irony for you, Flop--that's actually how American capitalist competition is supposed to work. You did it there--good for you! Each competitor works its own brand and business model, and the consumer decides who they like. (It's not where one side uses threats or questionable legal maneuvers to keep the competition from exercising their business model, and instead tries to force them to run their business in a way everyone knows is impossible.)

You guys should try doing more of this. You know, actual capitalist competition (instead of "competition by fiat"). It's the American way.

Good luck, Flopgut, and as they say, may the best airline win!

Bubba

Come on Bubba, remember a little quicker. The fight was over CLE. You guys thought we'd give up what we had there so you moved a bunch of flying in, so we moved into Hobby. MD80s every half hour out of there to CLE. Leaving IAH is something you had to agree to (in addition to backing off in CLE) so we'd pull the MD80s out of Hobby. So it was a bigger deal than just leaving IAH. Especially when you consider that you were offered 7 gates at IAH for the new flying. You had left there after you lost a fair fight, and then acted like you couldn't be expected go back for a whole bunch of other reasons. Everyone in Houston knew you got your plow cleaned by CAL. Meanwhile up the road in Dallas you were taking a loss on the final language of the WA, and signing that you agreed international flights out of Love were not to be done and were a bad deal for the City of Dallas.

So by your own description above, you've basically admitted that this is not how it was suppose to work. You've exploited a weak mayor, who was angry at the hometown airline, and got yourself a terminal that keeps out the competition.

 

[Flopgut]

Yup, covered that too. It's not Southwest's job to provide "opportunity for competition" to other airlines; it's the job of the airports and aviation authorities. If and when Volaris, Interjet, etc. want to operate out of Hobby, and have serious intentions, then the airport itself will build or expand international facilities there. That's how it works, Flop. That's how it's always worked. But I suspect that you don't really want that, since you put up such a stink about having to compete against ONE airline flying international out of Houston. I can imagine how much you'll bitch if others join in.

That's pretty much totally wrong. In fact, if GK had said it's the City's responsibility to build from the start, they would have said "we already did and it's called IAH".

This mess is not over. Probably going to take a long time, but I think it will end up just like the WA. It won't end like you think it will.

 

[vixin]

Must be nice to compete with out having to pay ones bills or obligations all the time. Sure wish I could forgo paying a mortgage and still keep my house.

 

[rjfo]

That's pretty much totally wrong. In fact, if GK had said it's the City's responsibility to build from the start, they would have said "we already did and it's called IAH".

This mess is not over. Probably going to take a long time, but I think it will end up just like the WA. It won't end like you think it will.

Have you seen the new terminal in dal? Surprisingly it looks like they somehow built in a international arrival area...can't remember the gates but two of them are walled off by a glass partition that leads to the secret chambers! I wonder if somehow they bought some pizza and said build in some customs and when Houston works out...maybe in a few years you can start another free love campaign and we will have no other choice but to set luv free again

 

[redflyer65]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it. I tried to help what was left of my airline defend the free market in Houston, and I ended up watching while the quasi-ethical Houston mayor refused to gavel out your applause at the Council meeting and let you rub it in. So that's what I'm still pissed about.

Big cities in different countries build big airports, and then all the airlines use them. We compete directly, or we partner in some cases, but the airports are the market. You're expecting the red carpet be rolled out at their airports and don't intend to do the same for them. Do you not think Volaris, Interjet and Aero Mexico don't realize using Hobby will connect them directly to your network? One or two of them will want in on that. I hope awareness builds after the routes are announced as to how little opportunity for competition you've offered, and that before it's done you've got a half dozen airlines wanting in. you're hiding behind a mayor that isn't going to have any sway South of the border.

Flop,

Are you delusional? It was an embarrassment to United that your CEO didn't even show up. The only people they sent were a couple of lawyers on their lunch break. When the Mayor asked where Smisek was, they blundered around and said he had important business in SFO. He obviously didn't give a sh!t about Houston.

The whole thing was a waste of time, and you guys didn't even make the effort to show up. So why after several months do you show up here pissed off? It's over.

 

[madjack]

U want a fortress base that gives a few gates to the competition...easier to manipulate prices...sound very monopolistic...

 

[scoreboardII]

As nifty as you guys thing your airline is, you no longer fly out of IAH. That's something I'm real happy about. You got booted out and I was part of it. I got a taste of it and I liked it; I want to do more of it. I tried to help what was left of my airline defend the free market in Houston, and I ended up watching while the quasi-ethical Houston mayor refused to gavel out your applause at the Council meeting and let you rub it in. So that's what I'm still pissed about.

Big cities in different countries build big airports, and then all the airlines use them. We compete directly, or we partner in some cases, but the airports are the market. You're expecting the red carpet be rolled out at their airports and don't intend to do the same for them. Do you not think Volaris, Interjet and Aero Mexico don't realize using Hobby will connect them directly to your network? One or two of them will want in on that. I hope awareness builds after the routes are announced as to how little opportunity for competition you've offered, and that before it's done you've got a half dozen airlines wanting in. you're hiding behind a mayor that isn't going to have any sway South of the border.

Yet your magical business just thumbed their noses at Houston and left for Chitago.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop,

Are you delusional? It was an embarrassment to United that your CEO didn't even show up. The only people they sent were a couple of lawyers on their lunch break. When the Mayor asked where Smisek was, they blundered around and said he had important business in SFO. He obviously didn't give a sh!t about Houston.

The whole thing was a waste of time, and you guys didn't even make the effort to show up. So why after several months do you show up here pissed off? It's over.

Former CAL employees showed up. Yeah, our current CEO didn't care to appear and we all wish he did. But I think he knew the mayor was going to approve this no matter what. The city council vote was 16-1, but later many members were indicating it was heavy handedness on the mayor's part that drove the vote. Additionally she pushed the city aviation department to support that piece of absolute fiction you guys wrote about what you were going to do for Houston.

We did a lot as the hometown airline. In fact, there is no comparison between SWA and CAL or now UAL. SWA has meant almost nothing to Houston over the last 40 years even though it was one of your first 3 cities. That's why the Chronicle poll that asked whether Hobby should go international was mostly in favor of "no". Most Houstonians are not fooled. There is no way you're going to create 10,000 jobs, or bring 1.6 billion to the Houston economy, or sell tickets to Bogota for $130. People in Houston know that's BS because you've been flying here for 4 decades and you don't do anything but send the money to Dallas. They aren't rooting against you (like I am) necessarily. They smell a rat and they know you guys wouldn't be trying to pull this if things had not changed at CAL. It's not like you were going to put the effort into Houston to surpass us. You're a penny pinching discounter that only came up with this bright idea because there was some blood in the water. So if what you claimed you would do with the terminal doesn't come to be, you can expect them to want to open it up to an airline that will, or maybe close it. It's going to be expensive to have two FIS running. Especially one just for you if you aren't living up to your promises. They sure as hell won't close IAH.

 

[SWA Bubba]

.....

We did a lot as the hometown airline. In fact, there is no comparison between SWA and CAL or now UAL. SWA has meant almost nothing to Houston over the last 40 years even though it was one of your first 3 cities. That's why the Chronicle poll that asked whether Hobby should go international was mostly in favor of "no". Most Houstonians are not fooled. There is no way you're going to create 10,000 jobs, or bring 1.6 billion to the Houston economy, or sell tickets to Bogota for $130. People in Houston know that's BS because you've been flying here for 4 decades and you don't do anything.....

Really? The "average Houstonian" didn't want the opportunity to fly international out of a choice of airports, with an actual choice of airlines? They all wanted to stay tethered to one single airline, basically charging whatever it wanted, due to no real international competition? Is THAT what you're claiming? You don't actually believe that, do you? You must have a pretty low opinion of the locals there.

C'mon, man, now's your chance for some of that real competition that you were bragging about. You offer your brand of service, the way your business model dictates, out of your chosen airport; and we'll do the same with our preferences. Then you can legitimately "kick our ass."

Or not.

But this way, instead of having your CEO dictate, we get to let the consumer decide.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

On the contrary Bubba,I have a very high opinion of Houstonions. They didn't believe the 10,000 jobs or the 1.6 boom to the economy numbers. They don't want the expense of two operating FIS and building a 50 million dollar parking garage. Additionally they understand SWA once flew into Houston and they know enough about your history to understand you don't concede anything easily. So there must have been more to you leaving and to you thumbing your nose at the 7 empty gates IAH than you're letting on.

*edit* Here is maybe something we can agree on Bubba: I like Houston well enough that I can admit, if you can deliver 10,000 jobs and 1.6 billion to the economy (and sell a ticket to Bogota for $130) then this was the right thing to do. If SWA can't do that, then that terminal ought to be boarded up and FIS closed, and SWA needs to be told to put big boy pants on and go to IAH.

 

[SWA Bubba]

On the contrary Bubba,I have a very high opinion of Houstonions. They didn't believe the 10,000 jobs or the 1.6 boom to the economy numbers. They don't want the expense of two operating FIS and building a 50 million dollar parking garage. Additionally they understand SWA once flew into Houston and they know enough about your history to understand you don't concede anything easily. So there must have been more to you leaving and to you thumbing your nose at the 7 empty gates IAH than you're letting on.

You must have been great at dodgeball in grammar school!

You know why we "thumbed our noses" at the empty international gates at IAH. Do I have to repeat the explanation about all of our passengers being at Hobby, and forcing them to get across town to IAH to connect to international? While yours are already there? How about, just for once, YOU address that, Flop? And explain how that can be a fair competition?

And the average Houstonian isn't shouldering "the expense of [an additional] FIS and...50 million dollar parking garage." Bonds and PFCs pay for that, exactly the same as any other airport with expansion costs. But now, Houstonians will have a choice, instead of being forced to kowtow to the Unical monopoly. Again, the "American Way."

Good luck in the competition, Flopgut! I'm looking forward to it.

Bubba