Southwest Pilots Aggressively Push Age 65

[canyonblue]

OK...tell ya what...when the rule changes, you negotiate to have your contract maintain the Age 60 retirement. That way, you can keep it exactly as you want it.

See...problem solved...now you won't get hosed...

Tejas

That is exactly what I thought. Many airlines have always had contractual agreements that would be more restrictive than the government (ie: Duty Days, Crew rest, etc). Just set 60 as the retirement age in your contract. After all, it was the lack of setting a contractual retirement age that started this in the first place.

 

[canyonblue]

If you are so strongly against this....tell us what you are doing about the pilots on your property who are continuing to lobby Congress on this issue.

Tejas

Exactly! If it does change ALPA and APA pilots have no serious clout. You guys are telling me that SWAPA is going to kick the crap out of ALPA and APA! This I've got to see.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

In the link below, you can read about the FAA's Federal Air Surgeon said in testimony (page 11): http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/fasmb/media/Vol43_3.pdf

And...today, we have a new Federal Air Surgeon. In addition, it was after that testimony that the FAA changed their position on the Age 60 to "neutral".

Wha happened????

Tejas

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

If I'm not mistaken, you can be a pilot as long as you can pass a medical. You can't fly for a Part 121 carrier over 60. Should we drop the age requirements for Air Traffic Controllers, Law Enforcement, and Firefighters? Don't use the argument that they have pensions, because it's not about that, right?

I don't know...maybe we should take another look at the mandatory retirement ages imposed upon some professions. How many jobs actually require 100% of the physical or mental resources we had at 20?

I have a friend who recently retired as an Air Traffic Controller after 25 years of unblemished service. Mentally, she's as sharp as she was 30 years ago, which may explain why she's been offered employment in the private ATC industry. It wouldn't send shivers down my spine to see her back in the cab.

Likewise, people in law enforcement. It's not unusual to find one who, upon retirement, opens a private detective agency or becomes a security consultant or body guard. Are they as tough as they were at 20? Probably not. But they're tougher than me and the people they have to deal with, which what matters.

Firefighters may be a different matter, because their job is almost all physical in nature. But if you're looking for some way to take them off the job market as well, maybe a realistic, objective assessment of their fitness for duty would be more appropriate than mustering them out because of their age or how long they've been on the job.

I know a lot of guys who may not be as sharp or have the strength or reflexes they had in their 20's, but they're more than capable of performing their jobs. That, and not their age, should be the real criteria for when a person should be forced to retire.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Whistlin' Dan, are you aware that the Federal Air Surgeon has no authority over the licensing of automobile drivers, truck drivers, boaters, and locomotive engineers? That being the case, why would he make any public statements about the licensing of operators of those types of equipment?

That's easy. Because he is a member of the Department of Transportation. From the DOT website;

"Our top priorities at DOT are to keep the traveling public safe and secure, increase their mobility, and have our our transportation system contribute to our nation's economic growth"

They can't do that if people over 60 are dyin' in the seats of their trucks, boats, automobiles, or choo-choo's.

If the Federal Air Surgeon has some research that supports his assertion that pilots over 60 are at significantly higher risk of having accidents due to mental deterioration or incapacitation, he has a duty to report it to the DOT.

If not, he should shut his yap, and enjoy his retirement.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Fired??? From your post, I'll assume that it's a bit past happy hour in your part of the world.

Read the referenced quote and you should understand the statement.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I don't know...maybe we should take another look at the mandatory retirement ages imposed upon some professions.

I really don't care about any other profession....right now, just pilots. Specifically, Part 121 Pilots.

Maybe later I'll care....but right now...

Dan writes that maybe "we" should take another look....maybe, but after the age 60 for Airline Pilots changes...and even then, my level of involvement would be determined by what else I've got going on.

Tejas

 

[Bringupthebird]

Right on Tejas!

Folks we're talking about taking baby steps to right a 48 year wrong. Let's stick to the issue and that is simply rainsing the age limit from 60 to 65. Will there be other considerations and challenges after this is enacted? Maybe. But we are acknowledging the advances in health and wellness in the past 48 years make bumping the age by 5 years a very low-risk proposition from a safety standpoint. The forecasted pilot shortage helps minimize the economic impact of this as well. In fact, for lawmakers this is a slam-dunk as it helps the PBGC put off it's massive obligation for a little longer and it gives those pilots displaced from their positions as a result of the industry turmoil a little more time to put together the scattered pieces of their careers

 

[Bringupthebird]

Right on Tejas!

Folks we're talking about taking baby steps to right a 48 year wrong. Let's stick to the issue and that is simply rainsing the age limit from 60 to 65. Will there be other considerations and challenges after this is enacted? Maybe. But we are acknowledging the advances in health and wellness in the past 48 years make bumping the age by 5 years a very low-risk proposition from a safety standpoint. The forecasted pilot shortage helps minimize the economic impact of this as well. In fact, for lawmakers this is a slam-dunk as it helps the PBGC put off it's massive obligation for a little longer and it gives those pilots displaced from their positions as a result of the industry turmoil a little more time to put together the scattered pieces of their careers

 

[sandman2122]

Why stop at 65 - if you really believe in what you're saying then let's eliminate any mandatory retirement age, like you guys say it "discrimination".

How would you like it to board a SWA flight and have a 76 year old great grandpa as your Captain? I doubt any "senior citizen" will fly 5-7 legs a day.......or 800 hours annually.........

I'm voting NO.

 

[canyonblue]

How would you like it to board a SWA flight and have a 76 year old great grandpa as your Captain? I doubt any "senior citizen" will fly 5-7 legs a day.......or 800 hours annually.........

I'm voting NO.

Neither does any "Senior" SWA Captain. Many work as little as possible and play the "pick-up, give-away" game to the fullest. If working till 65 was hard at SWA, you wouldn't see anyone pushing for it. And that my friend, is the bottom line.

 

[Victor120]

Not for the age 65 rule? Go to Capitol Hill and promote your cause!!! My hat's off to those who make things happen!!

 

[furloughed dude]

If these guys would get a decent pension, they wouldn't need to work until 65. C'mon guys, get a fu##ing pension so you won't have to screw up everyone else's life. I can't believe you fools want to keep flying past 60.....

 

[Flycatcher99]

Neither does any "Senior" SWA Captain. Many work as little as possible and play the "pick-up, give-away" game to the fullest. If working till 65 was hard at SWA, you wouldn't see anyone pushing for it. And that my friend, is the bottom line.

Canyon, you've crystalized my thoughts perfectly.

I'd give a shiny new dime to know the inner-thinkings of Mr. Gary Kelly about the underlying productivity issues that are afoot in a potential retirement change. (Not to mention, the relative increase in labor costs due to a higher proportion of senior captains staying on the payroll, versus lower seniority, lesser-paid pilots.)

 

[Widow's Son]

F-dude,
>>C'mon guys, get a fu##ing pension so you won't have to screw up everyone else's life.<<

I could truly give a rat's about age 60 but I would fight a pension with my dying breath. That is insanity. A DB pension is a financial marriage to your company and every idiot that ever runs it, buys it, merges it, leverages it, for the 30 odd years of a career and the 30 odd years of retirement afterward. Your financial future could be in the hands of the next Lorenzo who was in diapers when you were earning it.
For that matter you are still on the hook for every idiot union move that negotiates your benefits away when you're gone and can't vote.
A DB pension is also a 30-40 year timebomb on any company. Once they have more people on the payroll who aren't working than are working, they are forced to terminate it and start over to compete with the startups who don't have any liability yet. It gives the upstarts a built in advantage and it is a huge incentive for the company to consider bankruptcy.

SWA puts more money into our plans than they would if we had a DB plan. The money is ours to do with as we please and as much as I admire the company, I don't want my retirement security in Colleen's hands. While I am working I can invest it as conservatively or aggresively as I choose. When I leave, I can lump sum if I want or I can buy any annuity package I desire. The company, its creditors, nor its preditors, can't touch a dime of it.

Our system is better for the employees and better for the company, which in its own right is also better for the employees.

The sooner the legacy guys get off the pension trainwreck, and get money into secure vehicles, the better off they will be.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

If these guys would get a decent pension, they wouldn't need to work until 65. C'mon guys, get a fu##ing pension so you won't have to screw up everyone else's life. I can't believe you fools want to keep flying past 60.....

Thanks for the advice....tell ya what...you do whats best for you at your house...and we'll take care of things at our house.

Tejas

 

[canyonblue]

If these guys would get a decent pension, they wouldn't need to work until 65. C'mon guys, get a fu##ing pension so you won't have to screw up everyone else's life. I can't believe you fools want to keep flying past 60.....

When were you furloughed, 1979? Have you kept up with the industry? Pensions? We're getting those after we get scope on the Eastern codeshare. Get out of the time capsule. uke:

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey furloughed dude...where is your DB pension? Maybe you guys are jealous cus you didn't fight nearly as hard to save your pension as they are to change age 60.

 

[furloughed dude]

Haven't been furloughed for some time now, and yes, I do have a pension at my company. A real retirement, unlike your company. Also better wages and I don't fly 6 legs a day....

 

[canyonblue]

............and I don't fly 6 legs a day....

Neither do most Southwest pilots. You need some new material.uke: