Southwest Pilots Aggressively Push Age 65

[FoxHunter]

Perhaps you should stop listening to the drivel of Rep Gibbons and actually read about whether or not foreign pilots over age 60 are allowed to operate 121 aircraft in US airspace. They cannot. They may be able to after 23 Nov 06, but it is highly likely that the FAA has published or will publish an exception to the ICAO age rule and enforces age 60 as the maximum that any pilot can operate under part 121 in the US. Foreign or domestic pilot.

No drivel from Rep. Gibbons! Foreign Captains will be operating into US airspace and airports after 23 Nov 06. Foreign F/Os have been doing the same for years. The USA and the French can keep age 60 but they will no longer be able to restrict others.

I was a DC8 F/O back in 1974 flying for a Dominican company called Aerovias Quisqueyana. All the Captains were over age 60, the Chief Pilot was age 69, all retired EAL, flying MIA-Santo Domingo-San Juan. At the same time almost all the Air Jamaica DC8 Captains were all over age 60, retired EAL, flying to US destinations. ICAO had not adopted a max age of 60 until the early 70s and it took the FAA until 1975 to put any age restriction on pilots for foreign carriers.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Thanks Falcon and SWA/FO for the honest estimate. My honest question is: If your going to have over 3 mil. why work?

Flopgut,

My point exactly. At an average rate of return between 8 - 10%, they would be able to make between $240,000 to $300,000 per year -- all without working. What are they thinking? Working to age 65 no doubt cuts down on one's own longevity. What about the wording as to no two pilots above the age of sixty in one cockpit. Is it safe or not.

It's no secret that Southwest is a major participant behind the legislation to repeal age 65. Posters bring up United, DAL, and NWA, but those players are/were in bankruptcy with no leverage. In a case such as Southwest, with the company doing as well as it is, it absolutely makes no sense. Do you guys not think how this will adversely impact the rest of the industry?

Southwest, if you want more money, then negotiate it for yourself at your own company. Don't screw the rest of us. Get higher pay rates, better retirement, whatever. Going through Congress to get more money is a crock.


AA767AV8TOR

 

[Andy]

No drivel from Rep. Gibbons! Foreign Captains will be operating into US airspace and airports after 23 Nov 06. Foreign F/Os have been doing the same for years. The USA and the French can keep age 60 but they will no longer be able to restrict others.

Foxhunter, I'd bet that you are wrong. It is widely expected that the FAA will file an exception to this change. IF the US files an exception, no foreign pilot over 60 will be permitted into US airspace.

And FWIW, the US has the most exceptions to ICAO rules of any country.

 

[FoxHunter]

You guys that talk about 8%-10%-12% on your retirement plans are in LA LA Land. That is what caused all the "A" plan failures in the first place. I would suggest you use 4% and hope to be lucky.:crying:

 

[Mach 80]

For some pilots at SWA, money for retirment isn't even a factor. They simply enjoy what they do and don't want to putz around the house or hang out at the golf course every day. The atmosphere at work is great, they fly fairly new airplanes, and they have fun. If someone wants to retire at age 60 then go ahead and retire or build it into YOUR contract but don't tell others what they have to do.

 

[FoxHunter]

Foxhunter, I'd bet that you are wrong. It is widely expected that the FAA will file an exception to this change. IF the US files an exception, no foreign pilot over 60 will be permitted into US airspace.

And FWIW, the US has the most exceptions to ICAO rules of any country.

You would lose that bet!:beer:

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

This is the second time you've characterized age 60 as "early retirement"....in your earlier post #4, you made the same statement. If age 60 is "early",....then what is "normal" retirement age....65???

Prussian,

Age 60 is normal retirement for Part 121 and has been for over 40 years. It's what we all signed up for. When you look at the entire spectrum of employment across the US and when social security pays out, you could call age 65 a normal retirement age for the rest of the work force. That’s what I mean by a built-in early retirement. Controllers retire at age 55.

Keep in mind, we are not in a normal profession. Flying packed commercial airliners worldwide across many different time zones is very demanding. It would be very risky in my mind to go all the way to 65. The senate also sees it that way, hence the wording to not allow two pilots over the age of 60 into one cockpit. Is not age 65 also age discrimination?

This fight is really all about greed and abrogation of seniority. If it wasn’t the pro-65’ers would be fighting to get all the recently retired guys back into the cockpit. We all know that is not the case. To be truly fair, since we all signed up for age 60 retirement, all the guys coming back after age 60 should be put at the back of the seniority list. Do you think that will happen?

The age 60 rule has served us well for over 40 years and counting. Increasing the age to 65 is opening up a Pandora’s Box. If you truly need to work, then go out and find a job. Fly overseas. Teach in the sim. Start a business. Enjoy your family. Jobs are out there if you need them.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't want to be doing this job in 20 years, let alone 25! The real solution is legislation to extend Social Security and Medicare to people who have a mandatory age 60 retirement.

If you move the retirement age to 65, management will just want to lower longevity and the 401K contribution so you end up with the same. . . . . more work, same $$. No, thanks!


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[AA767AV8TOR]

For some pilots at SWA, money for retirment isn't even a factor. They simply enjoy what they do and don't want to putz around the house or hang out at the golf course every day. The atmosphere at work is great, they fly fairly new airplanes, and they have fun. If someone wants to retire at age 60 then go ahead and retire or build it into YOUR contract but don't tell others what they have to do.

Mach 80,

Sorry, you have it backwards. The rule is age 60 and has been that way for over 40 years. It's what we all signed up for. It has served us all well and has been safe. Trouble is the senior guys want their cake and eat it too. You are trying to change the rules in the middle of the game. If you want to continue working, go overseas, instruct in a 182, but don't screw with my seniority.

If the age increases to age 65, make no mistake, there will be an early out penalty to go at 60.

With thousands of pilots still out in the street, your agrument about just wanting to fly more is extremely selfish and self serving. Please consider how age 65 will impacts the rest of the industry.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

I don't want to be doing this job in 20 years, let alone 25! The real solution is legislation to extend Social Security and Medicare to people who have a mandatory age 60 retirement.

If you move the retirement age to 65, management will just want to lower longevity and the 401K contribution so you end up with the same. . . . . more work, same $$. No, thanks!


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BINGO!!!!!

Ty Webb, you broke the code!!