Southwest Pilots Aggressively Push Age 65

[Whistlin' Dan]

FoxHunter, you are one crazy, senile MoFo. :nuts: Here's Dr Jordan's final column, from spring '06: http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/fasmb/editorials_jj/final/

The testimony I cited occurred summer 2005, and is eerily similar to testimony from 2001 (Dr Jordan's been the Federal Air Surgeon since 1991):
http://testimony.ost.dot.gov/test/pasttest/01test/Lacey1.htm

If the possibility of a sudden cardiac "event" is of such great concern to Dr. Jordan, I wonder why his reasoning wouldn't extend to the denying of drivers licenses to anyone over 60? There, the possibility of collateral injury or death is even greater, as there is no "co-driver" to take the wheel in the event of sudden incapacitation. As I understand it, bus and truck drivers can drive pretty much forever. Railroad engineers likewise.

Maybe we ought to look at boaters, as well. A pleasure boat with a deceased skipper at the helm can cause a lot of damage.

That part about the deterioration of "cognitive skills" could really be used to support the denial of ALL professional licenses to folks over 60. As Dr. Jordan correctly points out, everybody's skills erode over time, though not at the same rate. Since Dr. Jordan apparently doesn't believe that there's any way to ascertain whose skills have, and whose have not, eroded past safe limits, he advocates the grounding of all commercial pilots over the age of 60.

Obviously, Dr. Jordan puts little faith into the ongoing system of checks and ongoing performance evaluations that are part and parcel of the air transportation system. The problem is, that that is the system we use to ensure that ALL pilots are able to cope with the mental demands of operating an aircraft.

If it can't tell us anything about the mental functioning of a person over 60, what can it tell us about the mental functioning of a person under 60?

Age is but one of many factors that can affect cognitive skills and mental functioning. I wonder why Dr. Jordan chose to address the problem in the manner he did, rather than to advocate for a CS test for all pilots on a periodic basis?

Maybe Dr. Jordan was getting a little senile himself. Maybe that's why he took the position he did. Maybe that's why he retired.

If so, good riddance!

Q.E.D., Dr. Jordan. You have shown us your proof...

 

[Sluggo_63]

If the possibility of a sudden cardiac "event" is of such great concern to Dr. Jordan, I wonder why his reasoning wouldn't extend to the denying of drivers licenses to anyone over 60? There, the possibility of collateral injury or death is even greater, as there is no "co-driver" to take the wheel in the event of sudden incapacitation. As I understand it, bus and truck drivers can drive pretty much forever. Railroad engineers likewise.

Maybe we ought to look at boaters, as well. A pleasure boat with a deceased skipper at the helm can cause a lot of damage.

That part about the deterioration of "cognitive skills" could really be used to support the denial of ALL professional licenses to folks over 60. As Dr. Jordan correctly points out, everybody's skills erode over time, though not at the same rate. Since Dr. Jordan apparently doesn't believe that there's any way to ascertain whose skills have, and whose have not, eroded past safe limits, he advocates the grounding of all commercial pilots over the age of 60.

Obviously, Dr. Jordan puts little faith into the ongoing system of checks and ongoing performance evaluations that are part and parcel of the air transportation system. The problem is, that that is the system we use to ensure that ALL pilots are able to cope with the mental demands of operating an aircraft.

If it can't tell us anything about the mental functioning of a person over 60, what can it tell us about the mental functioning of a person under 60?

Age is but one of many factors that can affect cognitive skills and mental functioning. I wonder why Dr. Jordan chose to address the problem in the manner he did, rather than to advocate for a CS test for all pilots on a periodic basis?

Maybe Dr. Jordan was getting a little senile himself. Maybe that's why he took the position he did. Maybe that's why he retired.

If so, good riddance!

Q.E.D., Dr. Jordan. You have shown us your proof...

That's all well and good, but then why the caveat in the law that one pilot must be under 60?

 

[FoxHunter]

That's all well and good, but then why the caveat in the law that one pilot must be under 60?

That is because that is the new ICAO standard effective 23 November 2006. ICAO adopted it from the European JAA standard which has been in effect for a number of years. This one pilot under 60 was adopted as an interim requirement until additional data is collected.

 

[Sluggo_63]

That is because that is the new ICAO standard effective 23 November 2006. ICAO adopted it from the European JAA standard which has been in effect for a number of years. This one pilot under 60 was adopted as an interim requirement until additional data is collected.

I understand it's the ICAO standard. Why? It's been in effect for a number of years but they don't have the required data yet?

When I'm an over-60 F/O (I'm a slow learner), and I bid my double d/h line to my home town, and an over-60 captain bids the same line... who gets bumped? Does a junior F/O get my line because I can't fly with the other guy? Or does the Capt get bumped like a high-mins guy would now? Lot's of sticking points there, among others. We'll see.

Either way it at least got me to brush off my letter writing skills as I let my Congressmen know I would value their continued opposition to S.65 and HR.65.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

I understand it's the ICAO standard. Why? It's been in effect for a number of years but they don't have the required data yet?

When I'm an over-60 F/O (I'm a slow learner), and I bid my double d/h line to my home town, and an over-60 captain bids the same line... who gets bumped? Does a junior F/O get my line because I can't fly with the other guy? Or does the Capt get bumped like a high-mins guy would now? Lot's of sticking points there, among others. We'll see.

Either way it at least got me to brush off my letter writing skills as I let my Congressmen know I would value their continued opposition to S.65 and HR.65.

DITTO

 

[FoxHunter]

I understand it's the ICAO standard. Why? It's been in effect for a number of years but they don't have the required data yet?

When I'm an over-60 F/O (I'm a slow learner), and I bid my double d/h line to my home town, and an over-60 captain bids the same line... who gets bumped? Does a junior F/O get my line because I can't fly with the other guy? Or does the Capt get bumped like a high-mins guy would now? Lot's of sticking points there, among others. We'll see.

Either way it at least got me to brush off my letter writing skills as I let my Congressmen know I would value their continued opposition to S.65 and HR.65.

I guess one could argue that any pilot that is a F/O over age 60 is probably a problem. He/She probably had the same problems at age 30.

 

[Sluggo_63]

I guess one could argue that any pilot that is a F/O over age 60 is probably a problem. He/She probably had the same problems at age 30.

Over 60 F/O's? That's nothing... I've seen a lot of over 60 guys that are S/O's... they really must have screwed up

 

[Chest Rockwell]

If the age 60 rule did not exist today, I do not believe anyone would have a sufficient arguement to get it passed.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I understand it's the ICAO standard. Why? It's been in effect for a number of years but they don't have the required data yet?

When I'm an over-60 F/O (I'm a slow learner), and I bid my double d/h line to my home town, and an over-60 captain bids the same line... who gets bumped? Does a junior F/O get my line because I can't fly with the other guy? Or does the Capt get bumped like a high-mins guy would now? Lot's of sticking points there, among others. We'll see.

Either way it at least got me to brush off my letter writing skills as I let my Congressmen know I would value their continued opposition to S.65 and HR.65.

I'd like to let my Congressman know how concerned I am about the "problem" posed by pilots over 60, except that he's over 60, and a pilot himself.

 

[Sluggo_63]

I'd like to let my Congressman know how concerned I am about the "problem" posed by pilots over 60, except that he's over 60, and a pilot himself.

Cool, what airline does he fly for?

If I'm not mistaken, you can be a pilot as long as you can pass a medical. You can't fly for a Part 121 carrier over 60. Should we drop the age requirements for Air Traffic Controllers, Law Enforcement, and Firefighters? Don't use the argument that they have pensions, because it's not about that, right?