Southwest off the runway at MDW

[PilotOnTheRise]

Please everyone on this board take the high road and pray for the family of the boy and for the suffering the crew will endure. For the SWA employees posting here be sure to do everything you can to support the crewmembers and their families.

This was an accident, pure and simple at a very challenging airport. Let the NTSB sort it out. No PROFESSIONAL on this board should be speculating. Be assured that SWA is a top notch professional organization. Operating thousands of flights a day for 30 plus years and this is the first fatality, ONE person. One is one too many, granted. But for any SWA bashers here I would ask you to take a look at your airline's safety record. I would be surprised if your carrier was on par with SWA in terms of safety.

Aviators should be a band of brothers. Lets work on it. My good friends who work at SWA believe it and I doubt they would be bashing should such an event happen to someone else.

Please take care all and fly safe.

Amen to this! I am only a student pilot, but I could cry, literally, putting myself in those SWA pilot's spots, and knowing a little boy died as a result of this, whether it was my fault or not. This is truly a sad thing, and the pilots will have to endure a lot of emotion over this. We should keep the family of this little boy in our prayers, the crew, and their family in our prayers, and the entire SWA organization.

I saw that the captain of this flight was 59 years old .. he will be retiring soon, and this will be a horrible memory to end a career. Lets remember that this could happen to any carrier, and any of us at any time, and not use this to poke fun, or make jabs at SWA. I think considering a little boy was lost in this accident, we have no right to poke fun at anything about this, but hope we can find out what happend, and prevent it from happening again!!

 

[airlinepilot]

Max Braking

Just to set the record straight....I have used Max braking in the 737-700....on a dry runway. While it is dramatic....It does not "blow the tires"......Having been through the Boeing 737-700 course in Seattle....I have never seen it written or heard the statement that Max braking was for Emer use only......Maybe that is a BUS thing....have no idea. At SWA we are not authorized to use Auto Braking yet (the check airman have been using it to validate our proceedures which will be implemented soon).

 

[Donsa320]

Just to set the record straight....I have used Max braking in the 737-700....on a dry runway. While it is dramatic....It does not "blow the tires"......Having been through the Boeing 737-700 course in Seattle....I have never seen it written or heard the statement that Max braking was for Emer use only......Maybe that is a BUS thing....have no idea. At SWA we are not authorized to use Auto Braking yet (the check airman have been using it to validate our proceedures which will be implemented soon).

Max auto-brake did not endanger the tires on the A-320's I flew either and it was not an emergency setting. Maybe because that is the setting for the Take-off abort auto-brake, somehow that got convoluted to become an emergency setting for landing in some people's minds.

DC

 

[atafan]

I fly the B737-800 and use MAX, the 800 calls it "MAX" not "Emergency", braking anytime the runway at MDW is considered wet or even if it's raining outside. The 800 is approaching faster and heavier than the 700. The 800's approach speed is faster than the 757-200 and stops a little shorter than the B727.

If you use MAX brakes when the runway is dry and especially if you are light the braking will throw you against your harness while you are scrambling to disconnect it but believe it or not the brakes don't heat up much more than normal braking.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Reverse thrusters delayed

Pilots of Southwest flight report switch problem to investigators
From wire reports
Originally published December 11, 2005


CHICAGO // Vital seconds were lost while trying to bring a Southwest Airlines plane to a halt on a slick runway at Midway Airport because a balky switch delayed deployment of devices that reverse the thrust of the jet's engines, investigators said yesterday.
In the first account by pilots of the Thursday night accident, the captain of Southwest Flight 1248 told investigators the flight from Baltimore was "completely normal" until he landed the plane at the airport.

A control on the throttle to activate the plane's thrust reversers would not slide into place, the 59-year-old veteran pilot told investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board.
At that point, the first officer leaned over and was able to deploy the thrust reversers while the captain applied full braking power to try to stop the plane.
When the captain saw that they were running out of runway, he also used his brake pedals to provide extra stopping power, said Robert Benzon, the investigator in charge.
The plane, with 98 passengers aboard, slid off a 6,500-foot runway at Midway Airport, through a fence and into street traffic, where it hit two cars and killed a 6-year-old boy riding with his family. Ten people, most of them on the ground, were injured.
The captain told safety board investigators he was concerned about the weather in Chicago, but was unaware of the "unique weather phenomenon" that was occurring around them.
National Weather Service forecasters told the safety board that an "enhanced snowbank" was coming into the Chicago area at the same time the plane was flying toward the Midwest.
Officials are not releasing the pilots' names. Southwest said the captain piloting the plane has been with the airline for more than 10 years, and the first officer has flown with Southwest for 2 1/2 years. It was the first fatal crash in the airline's 35-year history.
Yesterday, workers used a crane with a sling to lift the damaged airliner off the city street and into a hangar for further inspections. The plane's voice and data recorders have been sent to Washington for analysis, NTSB member Ellen Engleman Conners said.
Investigators still want to know whether the plane crossed the runway threshold at the correct altitude and speed and how much those factors reduced the pilots' ability to bring the aircraft to a safe stop.
Midway -- built in 1923 and surrounded by houses and businesses -- is among nearly 300 U.S. commercial airports without 1,000-foot buffer zones at the ends of runways.
Safety experts suggest the airports guard against accidents by using beds of crushable concrete that can slow an aircraft if it slides off the runway's end.






Copyright © 2005, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery

 

[Gorilla]

I fly the B737-800 and use MAX, the 800 calls it "MAX" not "Emergency", braking anytime the runway at MDW is considered wet or even if it's raining outside. The 800 is approaching faster and heavier than the 700. The 800's approach speed is faster than the 757-200 and stops a little shorter than the B727.

If you use MAX brakes when the runway is dry and especially if you are light the braking will throw you against your harness while you are scrambling to disconnect it but believe it or not the brakes don't heat up much more than normal braking.

Agree, B737-800 autobrakes are excellent. The amount of heat in the brakes is related only to the kinetic energy of the airplane converted to heat by the brake stack. It doesn't matter if the conversion takes place over 3,000 feet or 8,000 feet. At the end of the rollout, the heat will be pretty similar.

As for "max manual being better than max auto", this is true ONLY if the pilot is basically ready to mash them almost immediately. Consider what your feet are doing when landing in a tricky crosswind on a slippery runway... they're probably initially heels on the floor working the rudders to keep the track straight. The onset of braking when doing it manually is much later than what the automatic system does, which tips the scales for overall performance in this scenario, IMO, to the autobrakes.

 

[Ty Webb]

The amount of heat in the brakes is related only to the kinetic energy of the airplane converted to heat by the brake stack. It doesn't matter if the conversion takes place over 3,000 feet or 8,000 feet. At the end of the rollout, the heat will be pretty similar.

Of course speed, density altitude, use during taxi, and the temperature and condition of the brakes also are factors . . . . . but technique comes into play, too. The 717 had brake temperature indicators, so you could see the results after every landing. Some guys heat 'em up a lot more than others.

 

[RampFreeze]

... At SWA we are not authorized to use Auto Braking yet (the check airman have been using it to validate our proceedures which will be implemented soon).

This is an honest question, so please check all smart remarks at the door... Why were you (SWA) not authorized to use autobrakes as soon as 1 airplane arrived on the property equipped with them? I understand a delay while validating procedures as to when the company would require their use, but I can't see a reason why they wouldn't be available for joe line pilot at his/her discretion whenever they wanted. A short bulletin describing how they work is all that is needed, they are pretty darn simple and a huge enhancement. I don't like to use them all of the time, but when there is a crosswind, short runway, or rwy contamination, it sure is nice to have that trick in the bag. Just curious why their use wouldn't be allowed as soon as they were available...

 

[Gorilla]

Of course speed, density altitude, use during taxi, and the temperature and condition of the brakes also are factors . . . . . but technique comes into play, too. The 717 had brake temperature indicators, so you could see the results after every landing. Some guys heat 'em up a lot more than others.

You are absolutely correct, and my statement was too simplistic. On every jet I've been on, the manufacturer recommends continuous and steady pressure as heating the brakes less and importantly causing less wear and tear.

 

[NAA Pilot]

December 10, 2005
Accident Investigation Looks at Where Jet Touched Down on Runway
By JEFF BAILEY and MATTHEW L. WALD
CHICAGO, Dec. 9 - The Southwest Airlines plane that slid off the end of a runway here on Thursday night, killing a 6-year-old boy in a car, apparently touched down closer to the end of the runway than normal on a snowy night, an official who was briefed on the accident said Friday. The landing came after other pilots had reported that the best traction was near the runway's start, the official said.
The plane, a Boeing 737-700, with 98 passengers and a crew of 5, arrived at Midway International Airport from Baltimore at 7:15 p.m. It landed with a 13-mile-an-hour tail wind, making its speed over the ground - 124 knots, or 142 m.p.h. - slightly faster than normal, Ellen Engleman Conners, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board, which is conducting the accident investigation, said at a news conference here on Friday afternoon. It hit the fence at 40 knots, or 46 m.p.h., and then hit two cars.
Despite the fact that heavy snow was falling at the time, braking was fair on most of the 6,522-foot runway but poor near the end, Ms. Engleman Conners said. "We cannot tell you the specific touchdown point."
The official briefed on the accident, who would not comment publicly because only top safety board officials are allowed to speak for attribution, said, "The first section of the runway had the best braking, and the last section had the worst."
A spokeswoman for the Chicago Aviation Department, Wendy Abrams, said a friction tester was sent down the runway about 20 minutes before the plane, Southwest Flight 1248, landed, and again right after it touched down. Each time, she said, "Braking action on that runway was good."
The investigation could take up to a year, and explanations of airplane accidents often change over time.
On Friday afternoon, hours after the snow had ended here, the plane sat nose down, its front landing gear collapsed, near the intersection of West 55th Street and Central Avenue on the southwest side of the city, as officials from the safety board, the airline and the Federal Aviation Administration began work.
Ronald A. Stearney, a Chicago lawyer who said he represented the family of the boy killed, Joshua Woods of Leroy, Ind., gave this account:
Leroy and Lisa Woods and their three young sons "were driving north on Central approaching 55th Street," Mr. Stearney said. "They'd just been to a McDonald's, and they had some food in the car." Joshua, Mr. Stearney said, was singing to the radio when his father heard a roar and thought a plane was taking off. The next instant he heard a boom.
"It crashes through the fence, turbine engine roaring right outside his window," Mr. Stearney said. "I'm surmising: that nose wheel might have crushed into the car."
Mr. Woods pulled his 4-year-old out of the back seat but had to wait for the Fire Department to free Joshua and his year-old brother. Joshua was pronounced dead at the scene.
A neighbor of the Woodses in Indiana, Marty Embry, said the family had moved next door about a year ago. Mr. Woods, a truck driver, is "always out there playing with the kids," Mrs. Embry said.
Midway Airport, built more than 75 years ago to accommodate propeller planes, sits on one square mile among rows of modest bungalows and commercial buildings, unique among major domestic airports in its proximity to its neighborhood. Runway 31C, where the accident occurred, is squeezed in diagonally across the airport.
Southwest would not comment on the possible cause of the accident, the first fatality in the airline's 35-year history.
In May 2003, the transportation safety board recommended that all airports have at least a 1,000-foot buffer at the end of every runway. At airports where that is not possible, like Midway, it recommended a device called an arrestor bed, essentially concrete that deforms under the weight of a plane's wheels and acts like flypaper for aircraft that cannot stop in time.
The recommendation was made partly in response to a Southwest accident in 2000, when a 737 went off the end of a runway in Burbank, Calif., and nearly hit a gas station.
Last February, a corporate jet ran off the end of a runway at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey, injuring 13. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey said it would install an arrestor bed.
The F.A.A. has a "grandfather" rule that allows existing runways with no overrun area or arrestor bed. It can require installation, however, if the runway is repaved or undergoes other major improvements.
But after the Teterboro crash, with uncertainty about when overrun areas or arrestor beds would be installed, Senator Frank J. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, successfully amended the 2006 transportation appropriations bill to require that all runway ends at commercial airports meet the standard by 2015. President Bush signed the bill on Nov. 30.
According to Joe Del Balzo, an aviation consultant in Washington who markets the only product that has been certified by the F.A.A. for this use, about 600 runway ends in the United States do not meet the standard. Perhaps 220 are in spots where there is no space for the standard 1,000-foot safety area, he said. Mr. Del Balzo, who was acting administrator of the F.A.A. in the mid-1990's, said that the devices were engineered to slow an airplane by 70 knots, which is just over 80 m.p.h., but that in especially tight spots the reduction might be less. The average price per runway end is $4 million, he said. Gretchen Ruethling contributed reporting from Chicago for this article.