Southwest Line on Credit?

[THEPRFCT10]

Holy crap it has gotten vicious here.

 

[redflyer65]

Holy crap it has gotten vicious here.

Just calling BS on Dicko's assumptions.

I'm ready to move on, but he's still pissed about losing his CA seat. And I understand that. To be honest, I never thought that should have happened. AAI MEC helped play into that happening, unfortunately.

Again....it's over.

 

[Dan Roman]

Just calling BS on Dicko's assumptions.

I'm ready to move on, but he's still pissed about losing his CA seat. And I understand that. To be honest, I never thought that should have happened. AAI MEC helped play into that happening, unfortunately.

Again....it's over.

Two problems with your assumptions. Number 1......you come across as SWA is some special airline that is superior to AirTran. News flash, we all work for airlines that have periods of doing well and others not so well. SWA has had a few good years making industry standard pay and remaining profitable. Most of their time they compensated their pilots less to get ahead. AirTran certainly had some battles with less enlightened management, but the reality is they may well have prospered while SWA entered a period of stagnation had the merger not happened. Who knows, but you were basically both very similar LCC carriers and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. So I am not SWA bashing, but SWA certainly is not some superior airline that AirTran should have felt honored to be screwed over, I mean bought by.

Number 2.... you guys keep saying "Hey, the merger happened, get over it"
Sorry dude, you can't make a business transaction that screws people and not expect some negative consequences. Any negative ramifications that happen to SWA because of the merger arrogance they displayed is deserved.

 

[Dan Roman]

Oh, and I should add, it's not the fault of the AirTran pilots what happened. Gary Kelley played dirty pool, simple as that.

 

[scoreboardII]

you guys keep saying "Hey, the merger happened, get over it"
Sorry dude, you can't make a business transaction that screws people and not expect some negative consequences. Any negative ramifications that happen to SWA because of the merger arrogance they displayed is deserved.

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

Don't disagree at all. Mergers suck. Just don't do one and expect to not suffer the consequences. USAir.......that will never end. Even after the AA deal it simply will not end. It's my understanding that all it takes is one pilot to file a lawsuit and the SLI will be held up till it's settled. In other words that mess will go on forever.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

The biggie though is the SWA folks who come across that SWA is somehow superior??? This is the airline industry and yes, we that are left have scored, but there is no guarantees going forward for any of us. You certainly could make a case that the AirTran could have popped while the SWA business model could be slowing. It can happen to anyone.

 

[redflyer65]

The biggie though is the SWA folks who come across that SWA is somehow superior??? This is the airline industry and yes, we that are left have scored, but there is no guarantees going forward for any of us. You certainly could make a case that the AirTran could have popped while the SWA business model could be slowing. It can happen to anyone.

Industry up's and down's? Sure.

The differences in both carriers was pretty stark on Sept 2010 Dan. Sorry to burst your bubble. In ANY metric you chose.

Even when SW wasn't paying top pay, those guys were rolling in stock options as the stock split every 3-6 months. Multi-millionaires...easily. That was the bargain from Herb. Skin in the game.

Again, stark differences to AAI. The post-aquistion 'AAI is equal spin' is BS, sorry. Good try though.

So in your world, we at Southwest would have had 600 or so apps in with Airtran? Answer honestly Dan.

The fact Dan, is that it IS over. I didn't tell anyone to 'get over it', that's a personal decision in the end.

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest is better then AirTran. We won! Get over it, You're lucky you are here. You made your bed and accepted it by voting over 80%. Leave!!! if you don't like it, thousands want your job.

If your didn't want to lose your Captain seat - you should have taken DEAL #1 and you would have had our pay 3 years sooner. I know, I know "its NOT about the money". BS!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

Southwest is better then AirTran. We won! Get over it, You're lucky you are here. You made your bed and accepted it by voting over 80%. Leave!!! if you don't like it, thousands want your job.

If your didn't want to lose your Captain seat - you should have taken DEAL #1 and you would have had our pay 3 years sooner. I know, I know "its NOT about the money". BS!!!

Ah that good old warrior spirit. As I said, if SWA wants to grow that way, expect your little warrior spirit mantra to get diluted. You can't acquire an airline and treat them the way AirTran was treated and expect to get the full benefit of the transaction.

 

[scoreboardII]

Dan, you gotta know when to hit the ignore button man.

 

[HowardBorden]

You can't acquire an airline and treat them the way AirTran was treated and expect to get the full benefit of the transaction.

There are a lot of vocal pilots on this board, but they are really a very small percentage of the 46,000 employees. Not every pilot is unhappy about the situation, just like not every employee is peeved about the transaction. Some folks are very happy about the acquisition and feel very fortunate that the combined company will be stronger and more profitable going forward. Some feel that they will earn a significantly higher income now with more financial stability. So when you say: "You can't acquire an airline and treat them the way AirTran was treated and expect to get the full benefit of the transaction." I think your taking a very narrow view. Lots of people are quite happy with the way it turned out. We tend to only look at our airlines from the pilot perspective when in truth we are a very small portion of the equation.

Southwest Code-Shares Providing Additional $1 Million In Daily Revenue


http://www.aviationweek.com/Article...1_2013_p04-01-560676.xml#.UUyzMbgbA8M.twitter

 

[slaquer5]

Oh, and I should add, it's not the fault of the AirTran pilots what happened. Gary Kelley played dirty pool, simple as that.

It's Kelly, you idiot .

 

[Dan Roman]

It's Kelly, you idiot .

Oh yeah! ......Let's see you spell Dunkerley.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Dan Roman you stated that Gary Kelly played "dirty pool" and that the "Airtran people were screwed over" how specifically on both points.

I agree the combination of two airlines inherently sucks.


Thanks
Ghetto

 

[scoreboardII]

Dan, don't do it, this has been hashed ten times already.

 

[dicko]

You might want to review your analysis, the average new hire age at SWa has always been about age 42-45, not thirty something. In my class of 20 only one was younger than 30, two younger than 40.

Complete B.S. Over half the page that I'm looking at from the combined seniority list are SWA guys hired in their mid to early thirties.

You've bought off on the SWAPA propaganda. It was a partial truth, there are small sections of the mid - top of our list. That's where SWAPA started with their myth.

The numbers have been analyzed. Email [email protected]

 

[waveflyer]

Southwest is better then AirTran. We won! Get over it, You're lucky you are here. You made your bed and accepted it by voting over 80%. Leave!!! if you don't like it, thousands want your job.

If your didn't want to lose your Captain seat - you should have taken DEAL #1 and you would have had

We won?

You must be one of those guys that got an upgrade (or off the bottom of the captain list) on the backs of 80000+ #'s-

Deal#2 was better for you, but worse for all AT pilots and half RSW FOs- way to look out - keep your vitriol in your pants dude

 

[waveflyer]

Dicko-
You deny that AT had a 500 TPIC requirement in 2004?
That could be waived if so desired?

I don't doubt that you had some older pilots in the mix- so many pilots were laid off after 9/11- pilots landed at just about every airline- even regionals-
But again, there is no question that the SWA and AT jobs were not remotely equal at any time before the merger.
Are you questioning that assertion? By what metric are you measuring your equality? We had 2 pilots leave widebody FO slots at delta to come here in my class.

I'm willing to hear your argument though-

 

[SWA/FO]

We won?

You must be one of those guys that got an upgrade (or off the bottom of the captain list) on the backs of 80000+ #'s-

Deal#2 was better for you, but worse for all AT pilots and half RSW FOs- way to look out - keep your vitriol in your pants dude

Nope.... wrong. Point was: if they wanted their Captain seats - they should have taken deal #1. Deal #2 PASSED 84%. As in 84% of the AT guys thought they should take the deal. Much like 84% of the Southwest guys thought they should take the deal.

Get over it. "Timing" = is everything. Luck helps too.

 

[climbhappy]

this question is off the original topic and the "I hate my job" topic...anyway:

just bought a cheap $138 RT ticket from RDU Nashville to see my son....but the only nonstop segments which i totally love are 0600 departures...all the other segments during normal business hours were around 258 per and up with a stop in between...have you grown so big that you have to operate like a hub and spoke....or this just a nashville raleigh thing? ..what 's up? anything?

 

[scoreboardII]

its all revenue management these days, that and ball bearings.

 

[Dan Roman]

dan, don't do it, this has been hashed ten times already.

ok

 

[freightdogfred]

ok

At least as a completely neutral observer, with no dog in the fight, your analysis of how it played out carries considerable credibility to any reasonable person reading these boards.

 

[Scoot 11]

Nope.... wrong. Point was: if they wanted their Captain seats - they should have taken deal #1. Deal #2 PASSED 84%. As in 84% of the AT guys thought they should take the deal. Much like 84% of the Southwest guys thought they should take the deal.

Get over it. "Timing" = is everything. Luck helps too.

I hope you realize that your type of arrogance was displayed by the UAL guys in the late 90's and look at what's happened to them.
Be careful stepping on people on your way up, because you're guaranteed to see those same people on the way down, which is already occuring.

 

[SWA/FO]

I hope you realize that your type of arrogance was displayed by the UAL guys in the late 90's and look at what's happened to them.
Be careful stepping on people on your way up, because you're guaranteed to see those same people on the way down, which is already occuring.

Arrogance? How about Insanity!!! Complaining about something that "will not change" something that was voted in by both sides, by over 84%. You think FACTS = ARROGANCE? Really. You're going to put yourself in an early grave..... ITS DONE! Just concentrate on being a prick the rest of your time on Earth or at Southwest..... that will show 'em!!!!

Go hug your kids and be happy an excellent Company (that you are a part of) continues to thrive, thanks to hard workers such as ME and YOU.

By the way, I'm NO WHERE NEAR A UNITED GUY IN THE 90's - not even close. You're just mad, becuase I'm not crying like a F**King P*SSY - like you are. I sleep great at night..... like you I made my own bed.

:bawling:

 

[redflyer65]

I hope you realize that your type of arrogance was displayed by the UAL guys in the late 90's and look at what's happened to them.
Be careful stepping on people on your way up, because you're guaranteed to see those same people on the way down, which is already occuring.

What? Already occuring?

Time to put down the crack pipe Scoot. The agreement is signed, sealed and delivered. The AAI guys should have had the chance to vote on deal #1. ALPA thought they knew better and could extract more from SW. Big mistake. We tried to tell them. That's what's considered arrogance. Stating simple, known facts is not....but nice try.

SWA/FO,

He's Delta, so that should pretty much tell you what you need to know.

RF

 

[Scoot 11]

Arrogance? How about Insanity!!! Complaining about something that "will not change" something that was voted in by both sides, by over 84%. You think FACTS = ARROGANCE? Really. You're going to put yourself in an early grave..... ITS DONE! Just concentrate on being a prick the rest of your time on Earth or at Southwest..... that will show 'em!!!!

Go hug your kids and be happy an excellent Company (that you are a part of) continues to thrive, thanks to hard workers such as ME and YOU.

By the way, I'm NO WHERE NEAR A UNITED GUY IN THE 90's - not even close. You're just mad, becuase I'm not crying like a F**King P*SSY - like you are. I sleep great at night..... like you I made my own bed.

:bawling:

Easy tough guy. I'm not an Air Tran guy. But I do understand your anger. You paid for your job. Air Tran guys didn't!
And your wrong, I do think you're a ********************ing *************************! You're just another chicken ******************** coward hiding behind a keyboard!

 

[HowardBorden]

At least as a completely neutral observer, with no dog in the fight, your analysis of how it played out carries considerable credibility to any reasonable person reading these boards.

I am an extremely reasonable person and have no problem with outsiders having a viewpoint, however many of the outside opinions are formed simply from these web boards and not the actual facts of the agreement. I am shocked at the amount of disinformation spewed out, and that is from people who claim they are actually involved and actually have access to the documents. So, please forgive me if I tend do disregard claims of an outside observer that feels as if they actually know how this all went down or what is in the actual agreement. I have read every scrap of paper in this deal from cover to cover and have formed opinions based on the FACTS as opposed to multiple misrepresentations seen here on a daily basis. I fully agree that of course my opinions are colored by my own personal bias since I am actually INVOLVED and directly affected by how this all plays out, but at least I started out with a foundation of the actual facts of the matter as opposed to the colorful melange of innuendo and half truths spewed out every day here and passed off as the actual truth in the matter.

 

[SWA/FO]

SWA/FO,

He's Delta, so that should pretty much tell you what you need to know.

RF

I was wondering that - but I was on a roll. No stopping me while I'm on a roll.

Why is a Delta guy so concerned about Southwest?

Funny, I bought my job! Oh, if it was that easy spongebob. I guess, I would have been here a lot sooner - If it was about buying a job. Another guy that sucked on the Government titty... calling me out. Funny. I got my type on the GI Bill - FYI! :beer: