Southwest Line on Credit?

[Saluki Dawg]

You're a class act Wave.

Meanwhile; AirTran pilots are fixing your international program, enabling your stalled ETOPS program, fixing your training, fixing your 1970s Performance calculations for the - 800, introducing ACARS performance to your fleet and showing your ramp training programs how to emerge from 1980s via the interwebs.

When you get a chance, ask your Director of Training how many programs have been taken over by AirTran pilots. Good luck with Mexico City; Apparently, it doesnt need any extra training, it's just like any other airport ...... Apart from the volcanoes and the nearly 8000 foot airport elevation

Thank you!

 

[texman]

Some of us tried to tell our head peeps that things are a little old fashion around here. I guess when you have been flying it like a -200- some people just don't want to change. Don't discount us little ol line pilots though. We have been their done that type of flying many times over in our former life.

 

[HowardBorden]

Meanwhile; AirTran pilots are fixing your international program, enabling your stalled ETOPS program, fixing your training, fixing your 1970s Performance calculations for the - 800, introducing ACARS performance to your fleet and showing your ramp training programs how to emerge from 1980s via the interwebs.

When you get a chance, ask your Director of Training how many programs have been taken over by AirTran pilots. Good luck with Mexico City; Apparently, it doesnt need any extra training, it's just like any other airport ...... Apart from the volcanoes and the nearly 8000 foot airport elevation

Many thanks. When this acquisition was announced we were told there would be an exhaustive "best practices" study and adoption of operating procedures superior to the ones currently in use at SWA. I must admit, I was skeptical in the beginning because SWA is very fond of reinventing the wheel. If we are smart enough to learn something from the very capable folks coming on board I applaud it. I know it wasn't offered up by you as a positive thing, but I'll take it anyway.

 

[ATLplt]

Many thanks. When this acquisition was announced we were told there would be an exhaustive "best practices" study and adoption of operating procedures superior to the ones currently in use at SWA. I must admit, I was skeptical in the beginning because SWA is very fond of reinventing the wheel. If we are smart enough to learn something from the very capable folks coming on board I applaud it. I know it wasn't offered up by you as a positive thing, but I'll take it anyway.

Nice post.

 

[scoreboardII]

You're a class act Wave.

Meanwhile; AirTran pilots are fixing your international program, enabling your stalled ETOPS program, fixing your training, fixing your 1970s Performance calculations for the - 800, introducing ACARS performance to your fleet and showing your ramp training programs how to emerge from 1980s via the interwebs.
D

Good, so you guys are finally doing something for this company.

 

[dicko]

Many thanks. When this acquisition was announced we were told there would be an exhaustive "best practices" study and adoption of operating procedures superior to the ones currently in use at SWA. I must admit, I was skeptical in the beginning because SWA is very fond of reinventing the wheel. If we are smart enough to learn something from the very capable folks coming on board I applaud it. I know it wasn't offered up by you as a positive thing, but I'll take it anyway.

You're absolutely right. Credit should absolutely be given to SWA for taking the strong points of each company and mixing the two. It's the only way we'll get better as a company.

Wave is still a tool though He's mired in his personal and cultural bias that assures him that it took sooooooo much longer to begin a career at SWA. It's been factually disproved. Perhaps, it's more of a reflection upon how long it took him to get hired. With the exception of Military pilots and their obvious legal commitments, every SWA pilot I know was hired in their early to mid thirties. Just like AirTran. The analysis on my seniority.com confirms it.

 

[Dan Roman]

What would they do with JB fleet? another 717 debacle

Yet you tried to stir up crap by suggesting SWA wanted HA's 717's and A 330's?
You often point fingers at others as stirring up crap about SWA and take offense, yet you try and throw out what is probably one of the least possible scenarios around to try and stir up crap, what's your problem with HA out of curiosity?

 

[dicko]

I know it wasn't offered up by you as a positive thing, but I'll take it anyway.

Howard .....

It was offered as a positive thing by me. It was also offered to refute Waves perception of a young, barely qualified pilot group who should be thankful that Uncle Gary, after much honest analysis, offered us a career in nirvana.

Uncle G offered to take his pound of flesh, then when he realized that he could, doubled down and took a kidney. Clever and cunning; but he's not going to win hearts and minds for it.

I'm sure there are SWA pilots that feel the same.

 

[scoreboardII]

You're absolutely right. Credit should absolutely be given to SWA for taking the strong points of each company and mixing the two. It's the only way we'll get better as a company.

Wave is still a tool though He's mired in his personal and cultural bias that assures him that it took sooooooo much longer to begin a career at SWA. It's been factually disproved. Perhaps, it's more of a reflection upon how long it took him to get hired. With the exception of Military pilots and their obvious legal commitments, every SWA pilot I know was hired in their early to mid thirties. Just like AirTran. The analysis on my seniority.com confirms it.

You might want to review your analysis, the average new hire age at SWa has always been about age 42-45, not thirty something. In my class of 20 only one was younger than 30, two younger than 40.

 

[redflyer65]

He's mired in his personal and cultural bias that assures him that it took sooooooo much longer to begin a career at SWA.

Dicko,

Are you seriously saying that getting hired at both companies was equally the same? Really?

If Airtran worked into your plans and you agreed to work under a sub-par contract (with hopes of it improving under horrible management), then good. And that's not meant as a slam. For some, I'm sure that was the only place they might have wanted to go (for their own personal reasons), but not even close to hiring equals.

Hundreds of AAI pilot would have gone to SW in a heartbeat if offered a class date. The same couldn't be said for Southwest pilots waiting patiently to get to Airtran. Just the facts bro.

As far as getting the best ideas from the Airtran side, that's just going to work well for all us...together. So I'm glad they are looking at everything to improve the operation. No matter where it comes from.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Holy crap it has gotten vicious here.

 

[redflyer65]

Holy crap it has gotten vicious here.

Just calling BS on Dicko's assumptions.

I'm ready to move on, but he's still pissed about losing his CA seat. And I understand that. To be honest, I never thought that should have happened. AAI MEC helped play into that happening, unfortunately.

Again....it's over.

 

[Dan Roman]

Just calling BS on Dicko's assumptions.

I'm ready to move on, but he's still pissed about losing his CA seat. And I understand that. To be honest, I never thought that should have happened. AAI MEC helped play into that happening, unfortunately.

Again....it's over.

Two problems with your assumptions. Number 1......you come across as SWA is some special airline that is superior to AirTran. News flash, we all work for airlines that have periods of doing well and others not so well. SWA has had a few good years making industry standard pay and remaining profitable. Most of their time they compensated their pilots less to get ahead. AirTran certainly had some battles with less enlightened management, but the reality is they may well have prospered while SWA entered a period of stagnation had the merger not happened. Who knows, but you were basically both very similar LCC carriers and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. So I am not SWA bashing, but SWA certainly is not some superior airline that AirTran should have felt honored to be screwed over, I mean bought by.

Number 2.... you guys keep saying "Hey, the merger happened, get over it"
Sorry dude, you can't make a business transaction that screws people and not expect some negative consequences. Any negative ramifications that happen to SWA because of the merger arrogance they displayed is deserved.

 

[Dan Roman]

Oh, and I should add, it's not the fault of the AirTran pilots what happened. Gary Kelley played dirty pool, simple as that.

 

[scoreboardII]

you guys keep saying "Hey, the merger happened, get over it"
Sorry dude, you can't make a business transaction that screws people and not expect some negative consequences. Any negative ramifications that happen to SWA because of the merger arrogance they displayed is deserved.

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

Don't disagree at all. Mergers suck. Just don't do one and expect to not suffer the consequences. USAir.......that will never end. Even after the AA deal it simply will not end. It's my understanding that all it takes is one pilot to file a lawsuit and the SLI will be held up till it's settled. In other words that mess will go on forever.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why, it happened at every other merger, why was SWA supposed to be different? Heck, based on the Usair debacle, this thing is going along swimmingly.

The biggie though is the SWA folks who come across that SWA is somehow superior??? This is the airline industry and yes, we that are left have scored, but there is no guarantees going forward for any of us. You certainly could make a case that the AirTran could have popped while the SWA business model could be slowing. It can happen to anyone.

 

[redflyer65]

The biggie though is the SWA folks who come across that SWA is somehow superior??? This is the airline industry and yes, we that are left have scored, but there is no guarantees going forward for any of us. You certainly could make a case that the AirTran could have popped while the SWA business model could be slowing. It can happen to anyone.

Industry up's and down's? Sure.

The differences in both carriers was pretty stark on Sept 2010 Dan. Sorry to burst your bubble. In ANY metric you chose.

Even when SW wasn't paying top pay, those guys were rolling in stock options as the stock split every 3-6 months. Multi-millionaires...easily. That was the bargain from Herb. Skin in the game.

Again, stark differences to AAI. The post-aquistion 'AAI is equal spin' is BS, sorry. Good try though.

So in your world, we at Southwest would have had 600 or so apps in with Airtran? Answer honestly Dan.

The fact Dan, is that it IS over. I didn't tell anyone to 'get over it', that's a personal decision in the end.

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest is better then AirTran. We won! Get over it, You're lucky you are here. You made your bed and accepted it by voting over 80%. Leave!!! if you don't like it, thousands want your job.

If your didn't want to lose your Captain seat - you should have taken DEAL #1 and you would have had our pay 3 years sooner. I know, I know "its NOT about the money". BS!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

Southwest is better then AirTran. We won! Get over it, You're lucky you are here. You made your bed and accepted it by voting over 80%. Leave!!! if you don't like it, thousands want your job.

If your didn't want to lose your Captain seat - you should have taken DEAL #1 and you would have had our pay 3 years sooner. I know, I know "its NOT about the money". BS!!!

Ah that good old warrior spirit. As I said, if SWA wants to grow that way, expect your little warrior spirit mantra to get diluted. You can't acquire an airline and treat them the way AirTran was treated and expect to get the full benefit of the transaction.