Southwest changing it's "stance" in ATL. HMMMMMM

[General Lee]

Alright Bubba, for YOU, I'll stop the "this layover is better than that layover..." (For now). Just understand this. All INTL flying is senior. Even in NYC, where many junior pilots go, the INTL trips go senior, and domestic "See America" trips go junior. Yes, a reserve could get some INTL flying, but anything going over the pond on the open board is grabbed quickly, at almost every base on the 7ER. The INTL flying pays more, and per diem is higher also.


Take care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

Yes, a reserve could get some INTL flying, but anything going over the pond on the open board is grabbed quickly, at almost every base on the 7ER. The INTL flying pays more, and per diem is higher also.

Of course international flying is going higher on the seniority list, follow the money! When the larger aircraft fly international routes and get compensated at a higher rate for the flying they, do senior folks will always flock to it. But, when all flying is done at the same rate of pay, many will opt out of the back side of the clock multiple time zone flying. Feel free to take a look at UPS and see where the senior boys are flying. All aircraft on that seniority list are paid the same. The most senior guys are flying whatever equipment will allow them to stay away from the backside of the clock and keep them domestic even though they are missing out on a hefty premium on per diem.

Of course these are only generalizations and everybody makes those decisions based on their own set of circumstances. If you personally love international flying and love a 30 hour layover in a great city, more power to you. But please don't discount the folks that will gladly miss out on that layover in order to remain in North America and spend that extended layover time at home, due to less days on the road, if the compensation is the same.

 

[General Lee]

INTL flying can have more time at home, btw. DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours. Sounds rough, but doing a 7 day trip worth up to 40 hours means more days overall at home in a month, and doing a 12 day trip at the beginning of one month and one at the end of the next month means you could have 35 days off in a row between trips. Talk about time with the family. I saw a few 12 day trips on the 76ER that had 99 hour layovers in Palau, and island South of Guam, at a very nice resort that has downed Japanese Zeros in the bay you can snorkel around. Over 4 days off on a tropical island in the middle of a 12 day trip.(the flight from Narita is 3 days a week, hence one of the layovers is 99 hours until you return to Narita) That's more like a vacation, and many people bring spouses or kids on those if the loads look good (Air Mike-now United-- also goes there as a back up if needed to get out). Or, you could bid one day turns or 2 days trips too. Variety and choice are great things.

Regardless, both airlines are great, and I am not comparing layovers, just giving an example of how INTL flying can also give you plenty of home time with the family.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

INTL flying can have more time at home, btw. DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours. Sounds rough, but doing a 7 day trip worth up to 40 hours means more days overall at home in a month, and doing a 12 day trip at the beginning of one month and one at the end of the next month means you could have 35 days off in a row between trips. Talk about time with the family. I saw a few 12 day trips on the 76ER that had 99 hour layovers in Palau, and island South of Guam, at a very nice resort that has downed Japanese Zeros in the bay you can snorkel around. Over 4 days off on a tropical island in the middle of a 12 day trip. That's more like a vacation, and many people bring spouses or kids on those if the loads look good (Air Mike-now United-- also goes there as a back up if needed to get out). Or, you could bid one day turns or 2 days trips too. Variety and choice are great things.

Regardless, both airlines are great!/QUOTE]
You are missing the point! I can guarantee you UPS has the same variety of pairings, but when you equalize the pay factor, senior folks are opting to stay in North America and skip the international hassle that includes back side of the clock flying and multiple time zones.

 

[canyonblue]

DL does have 7 day trips worth up to 40 hours (no 30/7 rule for INTL) and up to 12 day trips to Asia (fly intra Asia once over there, like Narita to Guam, next day back one leg to Narita, then Seoul the next day, etc) worth up to 80 hours.

Bye Bye---General Lee

So it's two 7 day trips, 14 days, to get 80 hours or go away for 12 straight days to get 80 hours? F that, 3 on 4 off is about as good as it gets. Crap, I don't even like 4 day trips, I still love my wife and kids and enjoy seeing them. Our F/A's don't even have 4 days in their bids.

 

[fr8doggie]

Then why is the int'l flying extremely senior at FDX? Been here 24 years and can't hold an international line (not counting Canada/Mex).

YMMV but long haul seems to be more popular here than CONUS. And we have a lot of domestic day flying here.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

So it's two 7 day trips, 14 days, to get 80 hours or go away for 12 straight days to get 80 hours? F that, 3 on 4 off is about as good as it gets. Crap, I don't even like 4 day trips, I still love my wife and kids and enjoy seeing them. Our F/A's don't even have 4 days in their bids.

Only 12 percent of International trips are greater than 10 days....most are 3-4 days with about 30 percent being 6 days.

You are big time mistaken if you think that's all we do are 12 days.

I'll take 2 legs, a bunk, 2 meals and a beer in Europe than 3 days of up/down and running to Sbarro for the same hours. Love my wife and kids too and enjoy seeing them also......

Quit the urinary Olympiad over who's flying is better.....it's all about what works for YOU.....not what you want everybody to think is the best deal.

 

[Ty Webb]

Fine. Maybe now he can bid off to the 717, now that it's the new least desireable position.

Surprisingly, the 717 awards at Delta are going senior, from what I'm hearing on the coconut telegraph. Not sure if it is for the base, or just to try something new.

It's actually a nice airplane to fly . . . when guys transitioned from the DC9 to the 717, they used to call it "early retirement".

 

[HowardBorden]

Then why is the int'l flying extremely senior at FDX? Been here 24 years and can't hold an international line (not counting Canada/Mex).

YMMV but long haul seems to be more popular here than CONUS. And we have a lot of domestic day flying here.

Yes, I won't deny that but you are again missing the point. At FedEx there is a $36 an hour premium flying the larger equipment. That alone coupled with trip density skews the results. As I said before, it's all about the money! That is why I used the UPS example. When all equipment is paid at the same rate, many will opt out of long haul international flying. I'm not trying to say long haul international sucks, I'm simply saying that when you remove the higher pay from the equation many will opt for front side of the clock domestic flying. If SWA had lengthy multi-day pairings that paid more and offered me more time at home, I would swallow my aversion to week long pairings and flock to where the money is.

 

[scrub]

WOW!
Question, Why don't pilots run airlines?
Answer, Because they don't know how to run an airline!

Now GL And Bubba you guys "are in more dire need of a blow job than any white man in history"