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Southwest changing it's "stance" in ATL. HMMMMMM

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Red, what you are missing is the 30-35 days off before your next trip. That is why guys fly them, along with one commute a month, usually one leg days to a nice beach resort (in Asia), and higher pay and per diem. If the trip has multiple crossings (Atlantic or Pacific which is called a "six pack" for 6 total back and forth pacific crossings in 12 days---could be Honolulu to Japan and back with every other layover in HNL), that means one leg a day with 3 or more pilots, rest breaks, and ice cream sundaes available if wanted. Great deal, and not as many legs each day.



Bye Bye---General Lee

That's great, honestly- but here's the problem with your widebody obsession- it creates natural divisions. Because dalpa, and ALPA in general, compensate widebody flying so much greater- these divisions grow and the pilot/human disease of "I'll be happy when...." occurs. The pilot/human disease of "i make more $$= i am better than...i can stand a little taller around my peers." occurs. "i can look down on them" occurs?? sometimes?
You know it does.
envy grows.
pride is fostered.
Next thing you know, you're 5 years from retirement and you spent much of it in relative transition, and the career that should've got you out of the rat race, had you in one anyway. Collectively self inflicted.

The flip side to choice GL, is that you have a choice.
"Where there is clarity, there is no choice.
Where there is choice, there is misery."

Awfully hard to stay in the moment, if there's always a bigger carrot to chase; if there's always a big financial motive to get in the rat race and chase that carrot.

You keep hopping on multiple leg days as if delta doesn't fly them on domestic aircraft. Do you see the subtle way you look down on your md90 flyers? Your own 73 drivers? The war against the major airline domestic flying hasn't just been management- they're simply seizing on the divisions pilots have created for ourselves. You aren't a real pilot at most ALPA legacies, until you're a widebody captain- and then you need to be on the newest and largest and overnighting to the most desired locations. (All things you CONSTANTLY harp on general. ) After the last decade of paycuts and concessions, can you see how we do not have time for even subtle divisions like this. And for many an egotistical pilot, it isn't subtle. They finally got to the widebody. And damn it they will enjoy being king. Finally.

What happened to respecting the Flyer? We'll all Fly West one day- and it's too long a career to create our own rat race and carrot chases- dividing us and conquering us with the ego of "I am better than my brother. I am better than my professional peers"

For all the arrogance we get accused of here on FI, defending SWA- we don't, by and large, have the arrogance and divisions of other airlines within ourselves. We fly 737's and are proud to be flyers. That's it. Our old guard is proud of that. If we get a bigger plane, most everyone I've talked to agrees we should set up a UPS like system where we blend the rates, and let pilots fly the type of flying they WANT to fly. The type that fits best with their life. Not the type they feel financially obligated to. Life, love, and family is real and intersects with money. Don't create a system where the choice is money that will affect our families, or the type of flying that will work best for our families. Thats not a choice that gives a net positive to a life or career.

Of all our negatives, one thing SWA gets, is life. And priorities. And it bleeds into scheduling & pay & contracts here. One the industry ought to look at. We can't control management. But we can do what our contracts can do and be wiser.
 
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If we get a bigger plane, most everyone I've talked to agrees we should set up a UPS like system where we blend the rates, and let pilots fly the type of flying they WANT to fly.

What makes you think GK would ever be interested in paying SWAPA pilots a higher, blended rate than you get now?

And remember, always take his first offer because any subsequent deal will be worse.:D

Regards,
Fr8-
 
What makes you think GK would ever be interested in paying SWAPA pilots a higher, blended rate than you get now?

And remember, always take his first offer because any subsequent deal will be worse.:D

Regards,
Fr8-

I think it will be same pay across the board. It will be slightly higher but not much. What I like is are cost are very close to Spirts and ALGT, our biggest threat.
 
That's great, honestly- but here's the problem with your widebody obsession- it creates natural divisions. Because dalpa, and ALPA in general, compensate widebody flying so much greater- these divisions grow and the pilot/human disease of "I'll be happy when...." occurs. The pilot/human disease of "i make more $$= i am better than...i can stand a little taller around my peers." occurs. "i can look down on them" occurs?? sometimes?
You know it does.
envy grows.
pride is fostered.
Next thing you know, you're 5 years from retirement and you spent much of it in relative transition, and the career that should've got you out of the rat race, had you in one anyway. Collectively self inflicted.

The flip side to choice GL, is that you have a choice.
"Where there is clarity, there is no choice.
Where there is choice, there is misery."

Awfully hard to stay in the moment, if there's always a bigger carrot to chase; if there's always a big financial motive to get in the rat race and chase that carrot.

You keep hopping on multiple leg days as if delta doesn't fly them on domestic aircraft. Do you see the subtle way you look down on your md90 flyers? Your own 73 drivers? The war against the major airline domestic flying hasn't just been management- they're simply seizing on the divisions pilots have created for ourselves. You aren't a real pilot at most ALPA legacies, until you're a widebody captain- and then you need to be on the newest and largest and overnighting to the most desired locations. (All things you CONSTANTLY harp on general. ) After the last decade of paycuts and concessions, can you see how we do not have time for even subtle divisions like this. And for many an egotistical pilot, it isn't subtle. They finally got to the widebody. And damn it they will enjoy being king. Finally.

What happened to respecting the Flyer? We'll all Fly West one day- and it's too long a career to create our own rat race and carrot chases- dividing us and conquering us with the ego of "I am better than my brother. I am better than my professional peers"

For all the arrogance we get accused of here on FI, defending SWA- we don't, by and large, have the arrogance and divisions of other airlines within ourselves. We fly 737's and are proud to be flyers. That's it. Our old guard is proud of that. If we get a bigger plane, most everyone I've talked to agrees we should set up a UPS like system where we blend the rates, and let pilots fly the type of flying they WANT to fly. The type that fits best with their life. Not the type they feel financially obligated to. Life, love, and family is real and intersects with money. Don't create a system where the choice is money that will affect our families, or the type of flying that will work best for our families. Thats not a choice that gives a net positive to a life or career.

Of all our negatives, one thing SWA gets, is life. And priorities. And it bleeds into scheduling & pay & contracts here. One the industry ought to look at. We can't control management. But we can do what our contracts can do and be wiser.

Soooooooooo, you're against choice? What?? You'd rather have NO choice? Oh-Kay.........

Some guys like domestic, some want INTL. Here, you can do both. The 7ER category flies both domestic and INTL. When it comes to contract negotiations, some guys want certain things, but you vote on it and move on. I don't see any INTL guys talking poorly about domestic only guys (like Dc9 etc). Nope. If they want to try it, they can bid it. It's called a choice, and it's FANTASTIC.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
they want to try it, they can bid it. It's called a choice, and it's FANTASTIC.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Good for you. We all get it. We have for years now. You are wonderful because you are convincing everyone that your airline is better than everyone else's. If only I could get the hours back wishing, just wishing upon a star that I could be like GL and work for Delta. Oh well. I guess I just have to get back in the piece of crap 737 and fly another overnight to LBB. Oh well.

If you were not on this board it would be so much more constructive instead of your neurotic need to prove yourself. Instead more and more people are off this forum because of the atmosphere you produce and that means advertising dollars. But that is the owners choice. The guy(s) who run this must have the same needs as GL. Poor business in any schools book.
 
Well said Wave! General, sometimes you have interesting things to say about the industry. When you get in to these my airline is better than yours type discussions ......not so much. You sound desperate to convince yourself you are happy and better than everyone else. I am glad you like Delta so much. I am happy at SWA but realize it is not the place for everyone.
 
I am happy at SWA but realize it is not the place for everyone.
You can say that again. I love it at SWA that's why I accepted the job here. I love the scheduling flexibility, our work rules are great and I average 18+ days off a month. However, it is easy to see that it is not for everyone. Everyone has different desires. One mans trash is another mans treasure.
 
Soooooooooo, you're against choice? What?? You'd rather have NO choice? Oh-Kay.........

Some guys like domestic, some want INTL. Here, you can do both. The 7ER category flies both domestic and INTL. When it comes to contract negotiations, some guys want certain things, but you vote on it and move on. I don't see any INTL guys talking poorly about domestic only guys (like Dc9 etc). Nope. If they want to try it, they can bid it. It's called a choice, and it's FANTASTIC.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Lets not pretend all choices are equal. Some are destructive- some are good.
The way alpa contracts are set up, pilots often choose to fly intl when they'd rather not (ie: towards the end of the career when it's tougher on the body) bc to not do so is truly giving money away that you could be earning for your family- that sucks-
Chasing that carrot-
I'm all for choice in type of flying- and guess what? I could've not 'chosen' to work for SWA if international widebody was all that important to me-
Get it?
I want the whole pilot group to get the raises widebodies would bring-
Looks like we'll have that choice eventually anyway- hopefully we stay true to self and keep being the egalitarian SWA throughout the changes- how we operate, what we do, can evolve and get better- out ethics and foundation don't have to
 
Well said yourself ok3 (and Howard)

GL- we had choices when we signed up for this SWA job-
Now it looks like we'll be into the international game regardless-
I hope we learn the lessons from alpa and set it up just a bit different-

(Btw- there should be extra money for intl- bc it's harder on the body- and more expensive in many of those cities- wasted time in customs-
It just shouldn't be the pay rate, but additional per diem- and not NEARLY the disparity that alpa contracts have.
 
Lets not pretend all choices are equal. Some are destructive- some are good.
The way alpa contracts are set up, pilots often choose to fly intl when they'd rather not (ie: towards the end of the career when it's tougher on the body) bc to not do so is truly giving money away that you could be earning for your family- that sucks-
Chasing that carrot-
I'm all for choice in type of flying- and guess what? I could've not 'chosen' to work for SWA if international widebody was all that important to me-
Get it?
I want the whole pilot group to get the raises widebodies would bring-
Looks like we'll have that choice eventually anyway- hopefully we stay true to self and keep being the egalitarian SWA throughout the changes- how we operate, what we do, can evolve and get better- out ethics and foundation don't have to

I feel comfortable saying that's an unfair and inaccurate generalization. In fact, it's an assumption. I have met many Captains who choose to fly smaller domestic aircraft at legacy carriers to be based at home and or better schedule. I think comparing international and domestic flying, makes as much sense a comparing corporate and 121. Both have major advantages and disadvantages.
 
Good for you. We all get it. We have for years now. You are wonderful because you are convincing everyone that your airline is better than everyone else's. If only I could get the hours back wishing, just wishing upon a star that I could be like GL and work for Delta. Oh well. I guess I just have to get back in the piece of crap 737 and fly another overnight to LBB. Oh well.

If you were not on this board it would be so much more constructive instead of your neurotic need to prove yourself. Instead more and more people are off this forum because of the atmosphere you produce and that means advertising dollars. But that is the owners choice. The guy(s) who run this must have the same needs as GL. Poor business in any schools book.


I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....
 
I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....

Look who started the thread;)
 
I think this one sentence pretty much says it all.

The continuous year after year BS of the General gets really old. "I'm much happier than you and my airline is better than yours" = IDIOTIC/NEUROTIC.

He does enjoy stirring the pot though. Doesn't change my mind out being at SW one bit. If Delta called tomorrow and offered me the same hire date, I'd turn them down in a heartbeat.

To each their own....


To each is own is right. I'm not trying to prove my self worth, I'm trying to get you to see that having a CHOICE is a great thing. If you don't have a choice in flying, then you can't argue on which is "a better lifestyle." And, someone like Dash who flew INTL for 9 months at some legacy can't really describe it accurately, primarily because being junior on INTL can be a lot different than being senior.

Many people will be looking for new jobs in the next few years due to retirements, and they may want different perspectives on different flying and options. This forum allows that. Don't get too mad, please. There is a difference when it comes to LCC and Legacy flying, and again people may want to know about it. The FedEx guy gave a great example, followed by the DL Capt Dalad. Don't seem so threatened.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
To each is own is right. I'm not trying to prove my self worth, I'm trying to get you to see that having a CHOICE is a great thing. If you don't have a choice in flying, then you can't argue on which is "a better lifestyle."
Having a choice is fine and everyone makes them. The problem lies with your incessant attitude that you, or anyone that chose similarly to you, made the right one and the rest chose poorly. It seems that you want to tell us all how badly we missed the boat when we made different choices.
 
Having a choice is fine and everyone makes them. The problem lies with your incessant attitude that you, or anyone that chose similarly to you, made the right one and the rest chose poorly. It seems that you want to tell us all how badly we missed the boat when we made different choices.

Don't get defensive, I never said you made a bad choice. I said people who comment on how bad INTL flying is, without ever really trying it or who don't have the option, have no clue what they are talking about. If you like your job and where you go, then good for you. For people out there maybe looking for a new job coming up here, there is a difference in airlines and routes, and they should look into the differences.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

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