• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Southwest Airlines pilot union activates its strike preparedness committee

shootr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
486
Total Time
10+
Retro should matter to EVERY one of us. The retro check each of us gets means little compared to the precedent it will set if we accept a contract WITHOUT retro.

Think bigger picture, here.
 

Tripower455

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Posts
1,357
Total Time
Lots..
You got a handful of those, but, more to the point, about 1750 non-scabs, most of whom have already proven themselves when it comes to delivering a credible strike vote, informational picketing at airports, shareholder meetings, etc.

Good point!
 

HowardBorden

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Posts
889
Total Time
14000+
You got a handful of those, but, more to the point, about 1750 non-scabs, most of whom have already proven themselves when it comes to delivering a credible strike vote, informational picketing at airports, shareholder meetings, etc.
There are many more than 1750 on the combined list that have done all of the above, myself included.
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
That ship sailed with Plan B

That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwet pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson! Hey, since you're such a sterling example of a "big picture" guy, maybe you can give us some of your savvy advice on what to invest our 401-K plans in while you're at it. :blush:

Bubba
 

freightdogfred

Malcontent
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Posts
990
Total Time
Mucho
That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwet pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson! Hey, since you're such a sterling example of a "big picture" guy, maybe you can give us some of your savvy advice on what to invest our 401-K plans in while you're at it. :blush:

Bubba

I sense bitterness in your post
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
I sense bitterness in the posts of just about everyone. Good job SWAPA and Gary!
 

SWA Bubba

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Posts
2,300
Total Time
>10000
I sense bitterness in the posts of just about everyone. Good job SWAPA and Gary!

SWAPA and Gary?

I'm not sure that's who everyone blamed the most for their bitterness. It was probably the people that they actually sued over the whole debacle that they thought deserved the most blame. Uh,.... and that would be ALPA and you, wouldn't it, PCL?

Bubba
 

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Total Time
8000
What was it? Six months ago that PCL berated people for still posting about the SLI, but yet......


Here he is doing that exact thing. Why is that?
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
SWAPA and Gary?



I'm not sure that's who everyone blamed the most for their bitterness. It was probably the people that they actually sued over the whole debacle that they thought deserved the most blame. Uh,.... and that would be ALPA and you, wouldn't it, PCL?



Bubba


I was never sued. ALPA was, but only 7% of the pilot group joined that suit. The suit was thrown out on summary judgment about a month ago, and the judge determined that it was so frivolous that he ordered the plaintiffs to reimburse ALPA for its legal fees.

I actually don't blame Gary or SWAPA for the SLI result. As usual, redflyer has not the mental capacity to keep up with a rather uncomplicated conversation. We were discussing the bitterness and division that is evident in this thread, not the SLI. And no one is more to blame for that than Gary and SWAPA.
 

HowardBorden

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Posts
889
Total Time
14000+
We were discussing the bitterness and division that is evident in this thread, not the SLI. And no one is more to blame for that than Gary and SWAPA.
I'm always curious when I hear the blame for the deal that was created and negotiated by SWA management should be placed squarely on the shoulders of SWAPA.

All four parties negotiated a process agreement that invited SWA management to the table. Exactly what legal action could have SWAPA or ALPA for that matter, taken to preclude SWA from making the offers that they subsequently made? Please be specific. Of course those offers could have been turned down, but that didn't happen. What exactly could anyone have done to prevent the offers other than specifically excluding them from being made via the process agreement?
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
I'm always curious when I hear the blame for the deal that was created and negotiated by SWA management should be placed squarely on the shoulders of SWAPA.

All four parties negotiated a process agreement that invited SWA management to the table. Exactly what legal action could have SWAPA or ALPA for that matter, taken to preclude SWA from making the offers that they subsequently made? Please be specific. Of course those offers could have been turned down, but that didn't happen. What exactly could anyone have done to prevent the offers other than specifically excluding them from being made via the process agreement?


This is a gross misrepresentation about what actually took place. SWAPA took unreasonable positions and made it clear to management that there would be hell to pay if they didn't get their way. Gary yielded to the bigger group and threatened the smaller group with the loss of their livelihoods if they didn't capitulate. SWAPA and Gary both share the blame for the feelings of bitterness that will last for many years. And yes, no matter what someone tells you to your face while he's trapped in a cockpit with you for days on end, that bitterness is there.
 

HowardBorden

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Posts
889
Total Time
14000+
This is a gross misrepresentation about what actually took place. SWAPA took unreasonable positions and made it clear to management that there would be hell to pay if they didn't get their way. Gary yielded to the bigger group and threatened the smaller group with the loss of their livelihoods if they didn't capitulate. SWAPA and Gary both share the blame for the feelings of bitterness that will last for many years. And yes, no matter what someone tells you to your face while he's trapped in a cockpit with you for days on end, that bitterness is there.
I asked you what anyone could have done to prevent SWA from making the offers that THEY made. Stop the rhetoric and hyperbole and answer the question. Did anyone have the ability to stop SWA from making the offers they made and if not, why did the process agreement not preclude them from taking the control of the situation and dictating the terms that they did? Why didn't the brilliant legal scholars at the disposal of AT ALPA not see this coming? I know I was absolutely floored when I first heard an offer was proffered by SWA management and admit I absolutely never saw that coming, however I am not a lawyer practicing in the field of labor relations.
 

DUBLINFLYER

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Posts
395
Total Time
5000
PCL
Who bought who ????, you were lucky you got a second offer to work at SWA and not pound the pavements, get over it and enjoy your new career at Walmart
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
I asked you what anyone could have done to prevent SWA from making the offers that THEY made.

It's a nonsensical question. Anyone can always make an offer. The real question is why management felt compelled to do so. And the answer is that they were worried about how SWAPA would react if a fair process was actually followed.

Why didn't the brilliant legal scholars at the disposal of AT ALPA not see this coming?

Our Merger Committee didn't have attorneys in the room when they were bargaining either the Process Agreement or the SLI. Yes, the MC was incompetent. No argument there.
 

HowardBorden

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Posts
889
Total Time
14000+
It's a nonsensical question. Anyone can always make an offer. The real question is why management felt compelled to do so. And the answer is that they were worried about how SWAPA would react if a fair process was actually followed.

Our Merger Committee didn't have attorneys in the room when they were bargaining either the Process Agreement or the SLI. Yes, the MC was incompetent. No argument there.

It would have been very easy to put a clause in the PA which stated all bargaining for the SLI would be done exclusively by ALPA and SWAPA or an arbitrator.

I don't believe for a second that attorneys did not scrutinize the final drafts of the PA or the SLI.

Why did AT ALPA select a committee of incompetents (your words) to bargain what I can only assume was the most impactful agreement of most members careers?
 

PCL_128

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
15,296
Total Time
5000+
It would have been very easy to put a clause in the PA which stated all bargaining for the SLI would be done exclusively by ALPA and SWAPA or an arbitrator.

Actually, it's not quite so simple. Because Allegheny-Mohawk includes management involvement, if a PA wasn't agreed upon by the parties that specifically excluded them, then it defaults to management being involved.

I don't believe for a second that attorneys did not scrutinize the final drafts of the PA or the SLI.

You would be shocked how things went on this side. Attorneys were ignored or even not consulted at all at times.

Why did AT ALPA select a committee of incompetents (your words) to bargain what I can only assume was the most impactful agreement of most members careers?

Politics. It's an ugly business.
 

Tripower455

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Posts
1,357
Total Time
Lots..
That's a great idea you have--let bitterness decide your vote, to vote in something that hurts all Southwest pilots, including yourself. That'll sure teach somebody a lesson!

The majority of our list has voted to hurt us for at least the last decade. Sounds like he'll fit in perfectly around here! ;)
 
Top