Southwest Airlines Expands Atlanta Service With Two New Nonstop Destinations

[Music]

If I had to guess, this thing won't go to Arbitration. If it does, it won't matter what the result is (unless it favors SWAPA), we won't be integrated. That much is nearly certain. So it's time to quit the Arbitration rhetoric, because it isn't going to matter.

 

[Sacha]

No dog in this fight, but ... I don't think that will factor into an arbitrator's decision -- if that's the road that's taken. It didn't with NW/DL.

True. But then unlike NW, Airtran only has 737's and 717's. We don't necessarily need the 717's. Reality check.

 

[b747dogg]

You rolled the dice, and you may lose out. You don't now take it out on your fellow Airtran classmates. Maybe they didn't want to leave ATL, or live in OAK. It was your opinion that SWA was better for you, when the others may have liked their current situation. That's the way it goes. If it goes to arbitration, see if you can go in front of the 3 judges and tell them that story, and maybe they'll shed a tear and put you as #1 on the total list!



Bye Bye----General Lee

I rolled the dice and won, so far. My career has been way better with the path I chose. My classmates tried to leave for better places, but couldn't get hired. I know, I saw them at the interviews. (SWA, NWA). I have no bad feelings towards the Airtran folk, good for them. Cheers.

 

[laker4284]

Why is SWA longevity superior to AAI longevity?

Purely on a seniority only basis, one would have to say it isn't. BUT considering the massive pay and benefit differential, seniority by itself isn't and likely shouldn't be the only determining factor.

Essentially, the Air Tran guys want and expect the money and bennies they never had, from an airline many of them were not qualified to join, all while enjoying seniority due to an expansion with an airline that is barely breaking even and has little if anything in the way of cash reserves and thus likely a very uncertain future.

The Air Tran people get a windfall.

That's what seems to be outraging the SWA guys.

 

[Empennage]

You rolled the dice, and you may lose out. You don't now take it out on your fellow Airtran classmates. Maybe they didn't want to leave ATL, or live in OAK. It was your opinion that SWA was better for you, when the others may have liked their current situation. That's the way it goes. If it goes to arbitration, see if you can go in front of the 3 judges and tell them that story, and maybe they'll shed a tear and put you as #1 on the total list!



Bye Bye----General Lee

Gentlemen your point holds up under the national seniority list concept. It appears your statements and opinions refer to the fact that you support such a concept.

As far as arbitration goes, it's no longer required if what you state is what you state.

 

[Empennage]

Purely on a seniority only basis, one would have to say it isn't. BUT considering the massive pay and benefit differential, seniority by itself isn't and likely shouldn't be the only determining factor.

Essentially, the Air Tran guys want and expect the money and bennies they never had, from an airline many of them were not qualified to join, all while enjoying seniority due to an expansion with an airline that is barely breaking even and has little if anything in the way of cash reserves and thus likely a very uncertain future.

The Air Tran people get a windfall.

That's what seems to be outraging the SWA guys.

Pointless to continue to debate.

What concerns me most is why would three airline folks be so obsessed with something which has nothing to do with them. It is extremely disconcerting.

Additionally, the lack of ethical behavior demonstrated is appalling. When this sli is completed we will open this discussion.

 

[madjack]

I personally have never stated that AAI longevity is any more or less valuable than SWA longevity...I am an old, senior SWA FO...many SWA pilots are, on average older than the AAI FOs (the argument being it takes longer to get the competitive mins to be hired at SWA) would be hurt by a DOH integration. Such an integration would result in AAI pilots populating the most senior positions on the SWA MSL after 10 or so years...just sayin...but this has all been discussed ad nauseum...both sides no the arguments by heart...

 

[General Lee]

I personally have never stated that AAI longevity is any more or less valuable than SWA longevity...I am an old, senior SWA FO...many SWA pilots are, on average older than the AAI FOs (the argument being it takes longer to get the competitive mins to be hired at SWA) would be hurt by a DOH integration. Such an integration would result in AAI pilots populating the most senior positions on the SWA MSL after 10 or so years...just sayin...but this has all been discussed ad nauseum...both sides no the arguments by heart...

Madjack,

Age doesn't matter to arbitrators. Besides the huge amount of DL retirements just before the BK, there are year 2007 DL hires senior to year 2000 hires at NWA in the arbitrated award, because of relative seniority. Lots of crazy stuff, but that is how it works, and because your team didn't give a "fair" offer to the Airtran guys in their eyes, you get to experience this. The Process Agreement was signed by all parties. If it goes to arbitration, you can give testimony as to why you believe your pilot group should get the lion's share of the top of the list, but that doesn't mean they have to follow it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

there are year 2007 DL hires senior to year 2000 hires at NWA in the arbitrated award

So Genital,

The Northwest guy was okay with that? Just asking..

 

[General Lee]

So Genital,

The Northwest guy was okay with that? Just asking..

Probably not, but they agreed to the process, and honored it, unlike the USAir Easties. Those year 2000 NWA pilots probably are a bit ticked, but most of them were furloughed after 9-11, and they actually came back and were given "longevity pay" at DL, and they would NOT have gotten that at NWA. If they were employed for 1 year at NWA, and got furloughed for 5, then they came back to year 2 pay. At DL, they were given credit for the time out on furlough (year 7 pay). Another thing the NWA guys got was a higher hourly wage, better work rules, and a choice of Southern bases that many have taken advantage of. Most of the FNWA pilots I fly with overseas (3 man crew) seem to understand the award, and while some aren't very pleased with the eventual award, they are pleased overall with the merger.

You guys have already made your merger miserable for your Airtran brothers and sisters, and the threats on this board and others sure don't help. Looks like you may be headed for a repeat of the USAir fiasco. You had the blueprints of a "successful" merger right infront of you, and you blew it. Your group got greedy, and still thinks the Airtran pilots are sub-human who are "lucky" to have a chance at being on your list. I just don't think the arbitrators will agree with that if you give them the chance. But, it's your fault, and hopefully you will come out ok and continue to be number 2 at ATL someday.


Bye Bye---General Lee