Southwest Accident May Be Indicative of Carrier-Specific Problem

[stonewall]

"needles centered" is the only way to properly fly the ILS, and this is the only way to guarantee obstruction clearance. Flown that way, you WILL land 1000 feet down. You didn't fly the sim at the FDX interview one dot low did you?

didnt think so

Good point.

 

[stonewall]

Magnum please tell me you are joking

And you're right. Now that I've gone back and re-read, it didn't quite come out like I meant it.

 

[regionaltard]

Well, he didn't F it up. Would you rather fly it as pubished, or do the SMART thing and fly it like he did?

I think the whole point of this discussion it that if it can't be done safely as published, it can't be done safely. Period.

 

[regionaltard]

(3) If SWA typically teaches pilots to hand fly all approaches then it has even more serious problems. What would be the rationale for that?

I can tell you from personal experience that a pilot hand-flying an approach with a HGS is infinitely more "in the loop" with regard to awareness of his ship's energy state than is a pilot watching Otto do the heavy lifting. The HGS is so superior there's really no meaningful basis for comparison IMO.

 

[Spooky 1]

SWA AIRLINES LACK OF USE OF STANDARD BOEING SAFETY FEATURES COMBINE WITH THE RUSH RUSH SWA MENTALITY ARE POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTING FACTORS.

THAT COMBINED WITH THE AGE OF THE CAPTAIN AND HIS INGRAINED SWA ATTITUDES, THIS WAS BOUND TO HAPPEN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

WHAT A SHAME IT IS GOING TO TAKE THE DEATH OF A CHILD TO FIX SWA!

I am sorry and I almost hate to aske the question but what does the age of this guy have to do with this accident? How old was the guy who ran off the runway at KBUR, KPHX? Please don't dream up sh!t, just stick to the facts as if you or anyone else has a clue as what really caused this accicent.

 

[flx757]

Matt,

What superior airline that hires superior young pilots such as yourself that fly using superior procedures are YOU employed by?

Just curious.

At my company, we also fly 737s with HGS. Just looking for a point of reference so that maybe we can change our procedures to match that of your superior company...unless of course, you work here. If that's the case, then I need to have a word with the recruitment people to ensure we continue to get a steady stream of superior young pilots such as yourself.

(I see you are infatuated with the CAPS LOCK key on your keyboard. Is that another trait of the superior young pilot? If so, I'll see that we include screening for that during our interview process.):laugh:

Could I send a copy of your "facts" to the IIC at the NTSB? It would greatly assist in speeding the process since they can just cut directly to the probable cause and skip the investigation altogether.

 

[Spooky 1]

AGE AND REACTION TIME HAVE A POSITIVE CORRELATION. AND THE CAPTAIN OF THIS FLIGHT WAS 59!

ITS A FACTOR AND THATS A FACT.

FUTHURMORE IF THE HGS WAS BEING USED THE 59 YEAR OLD CAPTAIN WAS THE FLYING PILOT.

Hey Matt, I will try to humor you a little and at the same not hi-jack this thread. There are numerous posts on this site discussing the merits of age so I again will ask you what the ages of the previous pilots were at SWA that had similar accidents/incidents? I guess we will just wait and see what the NTSB comes up with and if they list age as a casual or defining factor in this accident. Until then sit back, listen and watch the outcome of the investigation. I personally have little experience in the B737 and only occasionally operate into Midway in a B757, so I am certainly not the expert that you seem to be.

 

[FDJ2]

I don't know about the procedures other airlines use, but DAL has adopted Boeing procedures. This is from the 737NG Training Manual.​

Automatic Brakes

​

Boeing recommends that whenever runway limited, using higher than normal approach speeds, landing on slippery runways or landing in a crosswind, the autobrake system be used.

For normal operation of the autobrake system select a deceleration setting.
Settings include:

• MAX: Used when minimum stopping distance is required. Deceleration
rate is less than that produced by full manual braking
• MED (2 or 3, as installed): Should be used for wet or slippery runways or
when landing rollout distance is limited
• MIN (1, as installed): These settings provide a moderate deceleration
effect suitable for all routine operations.
​

 

[matt1.1]

Age Is A Factor

That Is Why It Is Being Reported By Everyone From Gary Kelly To Cnn.

According To All You Old Pilots Your Superior Judgement Should Have Prevented This From Happening.

But All You Guys Have Is Your Witty Comebacks And Put Downs.

Flx757 And Spooky 1--stay In The Sim Mr. MD80 instructor pilot

 

[Spooky 1]

That Is Why It Is Being Reported By Everyone From Gary Kelly To Cnn.

According To All You Old Pilots Your Superior Judgement Should Have Prevented This From Happening.

But All You Guys Have Is Your Witty Comebacks And Put Downs.

Flx757 And Spooky 1--stay In The Sim

Again I ask and again, you dodge the question. How old were the previous guys that were involved in SWA accidents. I'll give you a hint on the BUR accident, 52. How about the guys at FedEx in Newark and Subic Bay along with the last five tail strikes on the MD11? Another hint, no where close to 59 or 55, or 50 for that matter. You don't know jack so please please take your made up profile and go somewhere else. Flying is a serious profession and to have fools like you draw fantasy conclusions about the cause of an accident is inappropriate at best.

 

[AlbieF15]

...I've always liked a slight duck under at 500 feet (fighter tech on ILS to land 500 down) when VMC, but I think in (most) approaches in a 727 it would scare the bejesus out of my crew. I also am afraid it might trigger a "sink rate" or even worse "pull up" warning. My only approach into that field was on reserve, and I avoid it an other "scary for a new guy" fields with bidding. However--TonyC, Jethro, or other bros--love to hear your techs.

 

[Spooky 1]

...I've always liked a slight duck under at 500 feet (fighter tech on ILS to land 500 down) when VMC, but I think in (most) approaches in a 727 it would scare the bejesus out of my crew. I also am afraid it might trigger a "sink rate" or even worse "pull up" warning. My only approach into that field was on reserve, and I avoid it an other "scary for a new guy" fields with bidding. However--TonyC, Jethro, or other bros--love to hear your techs.

I suppose we are all guilty from time to time of developing "techniques" to fly our airplanes but I would suggest that these can be fraught with danger and exposure to the long green table when the technique goes awry. Always can point to a procedure and take it to the bank, the technique on the other hand might not stand up to close scrutiniy. JMO. I say this not as faulting your technique, but rather than my experience of flying with hundreds of different pilots, each one with his/her own technique. Makes ones life confusing and miserable at times.

 

[Boeingman]

According To All You Old Pilots Your Superior Judgement Should Have Prevented This From Happening.

How about the superior judgement for those two "dudes" who were going to "410 it man" over at Pinnacle?

 

[Spooky 1]

That Is Why It Is Being Reported By Everyone From Gary Kelly To Cnn.

According To All You Old Pilots Your Superior Judgement Should Have Prevented This From Happening.

But All You Guys Have Is Your Witty Comebacks And Put Downs.

Flx757 And Spooky 1--stay In The Sim Mr. MD80 instructor pilot

Matt, I have never said anything like that to you? Don't use the sim but every six months cause I am still building time for my next job.

 

[matt1.1]

CRJ airstart QRH Flawed

How about the superior judgement for those two "dudes" who were going to "410 it man" over at Pinnacle?

And how did that accident have anything to do with reaction time as this discussion does concerning brake application reactions.

Boeingman, I suggest you read the accident investigation before misrepresenting the facts about young pilots. That accident involved two GE engines that failed to restart and a QRH that did not provide the necessary airspeed guidance for a successful restart. Nice try, old timer but again your MEMORY has failed or you are just distorting the facts and talking out your a$$.

Matt, I left this one post intact since you were at least trying to speak factually. Problem is, there has been no formal report issued on the crash in question. Your facts may be facts indeed--but accusing others of distorting the facts is difficult to prove when there has been no conclusive documentation either way.