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Southwest Accident May Be Indicative of Carrier-Specific Problem

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Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
508
Discuss.

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http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051209/nyf103.html?.v=19

Fatal Landing of Southwest Airlines Flight at Midway Airport in Chicago Last Night is Similar to Previous Runway Overrun Accident Carrier Has Had

Friday December 9, 4:30 pm ET

May Be Indicative of Carrier-Specific Problem, Says Nation's Leading Aviation Law Firm

NEW YORK, Dec. 9 /PRNewswire/ -- The fatal landing of Southwest Airlines (SWA) Flight 1248 at Chicago's Midway Airport in a snowstorm last night is strikingly similar to at least one other runway overrun accident involving Southwest, and may be indicative of a carrier-wide operational problem, according to attorneys and pilots with the aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler LLP (http://www.kreindler.com). The previous incident occurred at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CA, on March 5, 2000, injuring several people on the ground.

While the investigation is ongoing and the specific cause in the Midway accident is not yet determined, it was the direct responsibility of the Southwest flight crew to safely land the 737 aircraft or make the decision that a safe landing could not be accomplished," said Daniel O. Rose, a partner at Kreindler who is also a highly trained pilot. "The crew, as do all crews, had the option to either abort the approach or divert the plane and passengers safely to another airport. Does this suggest a pattern in SWA's flight operations?

"In the Burbank crash of a 737-300, injured parties successfully claimed that SWA fosters a culture of expediency, cost savings and an aggressive 'get the plane down' approach that, in combination, compromised passenger safety," said Mr. Rose, who was involved in the Burbank litigation. "In that incident, it was determined that the SWA flight crew failed to abort an unstable approach. The aircraft approached too high, too fast and too steep. The flight crew was warned by the onboard warning system, yet proceeded with a dangerously out of limits approach and failed to abort the landing when it was clear they were unable to stop on the runway."

Mr. Rose indicated that, as a cost-savings method, SWA had also decided to disconnect an automatic braking system, which would have stopped the aircraft on the runway in Burbank. As at Midway, the Burbank aircraft ran off the runway, broke through the airport barriers, 20 feet tall steel blast fences, and ran onto Hollywood Way, a busy multi-lane road, crashing into a car and injuring its occupants. Kreindler was the lead attorney in the case on behalf of the 20 families involved in the Burbank crash.

"No less important is the fact that an especially high level of caution is required whenever severe weather that could compromise a safe landing is obvious and when runway conditions deteriorate," said Marc S. Moller, an aviation attorney and partner at Kreindler & Kreindler. "Weather doesn't cause accidents; people do. The fact that other aircraft safely landed last night before Flight 1248 and that the runway condition was reported as 'fair' would seem to suggest that there was something different about this plane's approach and landing. The 737-700 involved in the Midway crash should have had the auto brake system installed and, if used, that should have stopped the aircraft, given a normal and stable approach by the flight crew. Yesterday's crash is not the first in bad weather that should never have happened."

Originating from Baltimore-Washington International Airport last night, the landing of SWA's Boeing 737 killed at least one child on the ground and seriously injured several others as the plane overran the runway and plowed onto Central just south of 55th Street adjacent to Midway Airport.
 
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Well I think we can officially name one Daniel O. Rose as a pretty lousy excuse for a human being. What a prick....

As for Marc S. Moller, see my definition of Daniel O. Rose.
 
He's trying to get his name out there for all the potential litigants. It's going to be a real scramble for clients in the next couple of days.

Somebody needs to tell him the ambulance left the scene last night...
 
Furloughfodder,
Come on man, dont be a loser. Your subject is only 1/2 of what it should be. When you click on the link, it exposes the fact that you left out the other half of the title of the artice. It actually reads, "May Be Indicative of Carrier-Specific Problem, Says Nation's Leading Aviation Law Firm"
These Lawyers are going to be lining up to sue SWA, and you know that. Consider the source, a law firm? SWA has been operating 737s for over 30 years, accident free. A few incidents, yes, but never a fatal accident, so they are obviously doing something right. When all those 737s were having Rudder Hard overs, SWA never had one.
You must consider the source when you see things like this. These are the same idiots that get on TV and call themselves "Aviation Experts", doing nothing more than scaring the flying public. I don't see med students getting on TV discussing detailed medical procedures or Law students getting on TV disecting complex legal issues, but these "Aviation Experts" that went to law school and have a private and all of the sudden they are "Experts". I don't know 1 single attorney with an ATP and type rating.
I am not a SWA apoligist by any means. SWA is a lot like Microsoft; they have a service/product that people like and actually use to make life efficient, so they become sucessful, then people get pi#sed off because of that success, and the company then gets in legal trouble for Anti-trust or safety issues that pretty much dont exist. I think that is disgusting. SWA screwed up here, I don't think anyone can say differently with a straight face, and they'll pay for it in monetary terms, but these Lawyers are nuts. Check this out www.nikeclassaction.com. Now, let me offer a rebuttal to the below mentioned article.
furloughfodder said:
Discuss.

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http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051209/nyf103.html?.v=19

Fatal Landing of Southwest Airlines Flight at Midway Airport in Chicago Last Night is Similar to Previous Runway Overrun Accident Carrier Has Had

Friday December 9, 4:30 pm ET

May Be Indicative of Carrier-Specific Problem, Says Nation's Leading Aviation Law Firm

NEW YORK, Dec. 9 /PRNewswire/ -- The fatal landing of Southwest Airlines (SWA) Flight 1248 at Chicago's Midway Airport in a snowstorm last night is strikingly similar to at least one other runway overrun accident involving Southwest, and may be indicative of a carrier-wide operational problem, according to attorneys and pilots with the aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler LLP (http://www.kreindler.com). The previous incident occurred at Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, CA, on March 5, 2000, injuring several people on the ground.
The accident in Y2K happened because of ego, not some company policy. The PIC of that flight was too fast (REF+30-50??). He did not initiate a go-around when he knew he needed to. The same thing might have happened here, but we don't know as of yet exactly what caused this incident. As the plane was crashing in 2000, the PIC was overheard apoligizing and accepting blame on the CVR. We was fired right away (though later rehired on the condition he retire right away).[/quote]

furloughfodder said:
While the investigation is ongoing and the specific cause in the Midway accident is not yet determined, it was the direct responsibility of the Southwest flight crew to safely land the 737 aircraft or make the decision that a safe landing could not be accomplished," said Daniel O. Rose, a partner at Kreindler who is also a highly trained pilot. "The crew, as do all crews, had the option to either abort the approach or divert the plane and passengers safely to another airport. Does this suggest a pattern in SWA's flight operations?
No, it does not. The T/Rs might not have deployed, the brakes might not have worked, I could go on and on. I bet we will learn this plane was fine until it landed and there was not some problem they were aware of while airborne. The person in the article, Dan O. Rose, is a lawyer, yes. Highly trained pilot, NO! He has a COMM/INST ME and his Medical is from March of 2004. He is a loser.

furloughfodder said:
"In the Burbank crash of a 737-300, injured parties successfully claimed that SWA fosters a culture of expediency, cost savings and an aggressive 'get the plane down' approach that, in combination, compromised passenger safety," said Mr. Rose, who was involved in the Burbank litigation. "In that incident, it was determined that the SWA flight crew failed to abort an unstable approach. The aircraft approached too high, too fast and too steep. The flight crew was warned by the onboard warning system, yet proceeded with a dangerously out of limits approach and failed to abort the landing when it was clear they were unable to stop on the runway."
For the most part, that is accurate. As for the aural warnings, that could go wither way. Fly a glideslope then on short final hop onto the VASI and off the Glideslope, the plane will start screaming "Glideslope, Glodeslope".

furloughfodder said:
Mr. Rose indicated that, as a cost-savings method, SWA had also decided to disconnect an automatic braking system, which would have stopped the aircraft on the runway in Burbank. As at Midway, the Burbank aircraft ran off the runway, broke through the airport barriers, 20 feet tall steel blast fences, and ran onto Hollywood Way, a busy multi-lane road, crashing into a car and injuring its occupants. Kreindler was the lead attorney in the case on behalf of the 20 families involved in the Burbank crash.
He forgot the Auto-throttle too. That equipment was disconnected because they are not fleet-wide. They are only on some airplanes. As they get these new planes and put them into service, it would be a financial and logistical nightmare to try to get only the "trained" pilots paired with auto-brake and auto-throttle specific aircraft. It would cripple the company and put them out of business. Planes would sit.

furloughfodder said:
"No less important is the fact that an especially high level of caution is required whenever severe weather that could compromise a safe landing is obvious and when runway conditions deteriorate," said Marc S. Moller, an aviation attorney and partner at Kreindler & Kreindler. "Weather doesn't cause accidents; people do.
Really, please name the person that caused all the accidents and devistation of Hurricane Katrina.

furloughfodder said:
The fact that other aircraft safely landed last night before Flight 1248 and that the runway condition was reported as 'fair' would seem to suggest that there was something different about this plane's approach and landing. The 737-700 involved in the Midway crash should have had the auto brake system installed and, if used, that should have stopped the aircraft, given a normal and stable approach by the flight crew. Yesterday's crash is not the first in bad weather that should never have happened."
So I guess all the other aircraft had auto-brake systems installed, including the other SWA airplanes that landed that night with no auto-brakes?????? Come on.

furloughfodder said:
Originating from Baltimore-Washington International Airport last night, the landing of SWA's Boeing 737 killed at least one child on the ground and seriously injured several others as the plane overran the runway and plowed onto Central just south of 55th Street adjacent to Midway Airport.
That is unfortunate and SWA will pay as they should, but this appears to be just what it is, an accident, nothing more, nothing less. Not some conspiracy to not use safety equipment. Things like this are going to happen but most of us train to minimalize the effects of these type issues.
 
Hey Hawker, what's got your panties in a bunch? Didn't FF just say discuss? What up with the loser call?

FF has put up a pretty good article, and as you rightly point out, it's all about a bunch of pricks trying to make some $$ off of other people's tragedies. Back up off of FF on this one!
 
AQ PILOT said:
Hey Hawker, what's got your panties in a bunch? Didn't FF just say discuss? What up with the loser call?

FF has put up a pretty good article, and as you rightly point out, it's all about a bunch of pricks trying to make some $$ off of other people's tragedies. Back up off of FF on this one!
I was not suggesting he was a loser. Not be any means. I was saying don't act like one. He takes the title from the article, delets 1/2 of it, which is the most important part, as it reveals the source of the article's data. I hope he did not take offense, as that was not my intention. I just wished he would have not edited it to remove the "mean and potatos" of the title.
 
Come on, the report's not out yet, maybe the aircraft did have some mechanical problems. Braking action was Fair/Fair/Poor... It was snowing very heavily, that's all we know. It was a tragic event, but how many out there go by as lucky incidents that aren't reported on the news... Because if they did report them, there would be several a day!!!!
 
HawkerF/O-

flightinfo.com has a limit to how long the title of a topic can be. The entire headline was just too long.
 

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