Someone's gotta say it...

[Diesel]

Its driving me nuts I can't find the article in the usatoday about hotel guests wearing completely inappropriate things in hotel lounges and what hotels were doing about it.

Some of the interesting stories they had were guests that use the hotel lounge and restaurant wearing nothing but their robe. Kibbles and bits and all hanging out.

Damn I wish i can find it.

I do see all kinds of dress in the lounges. Last I checked there is no dress code or very limited.

Kumbaya kumbaya.....................

 

[x402]

Its driving me nuts I can't find the article in the usatoday about hotel guests wearing completely inappropriate things in hotel lounges and what hotels were doing about it.

Some of the interesting stories they had were guests that use the hotel lounge and restaurant wearing nothing but their robe. Kibbles and bits and all hanging out.

Damn I wish i can find it.

I do see all kinds of dress in the lounges. Last I checked there is no dress code or very limited.

Kumbaya kumbaya.....................

Sleep walkers(nekid)........hotel staff have been trained to offer a towel and get them back to their rooms. Seems to be a Big problem in the UK. Warm beer, I think.

 

[kman]

I do at least one 10hr turn on the slave ship(excel) at least a week. I averaged my 10hr turns for the last two years and came up with 2.74 <11 hours a week , and yes, I have dropped the f bomb when I needed it.

Second, When I on duty, I will do my part and make sure that I give every single owner the experience that they deserve. When I am duty my tie is tied, my shoes are shined, my shirt and pants are pressed. But If I choose to wear shorts, tshirts, sweats, running pants, that is my choice.

Don't take me the wrong way, Im not going to come in the lounge naked, nor am I going to dress up to come to a Lounge. You guys really need to relax and worry about something important.

I will wear my running pants and tshirt to every lounge proudly from now on. I have not and will not let another pilot tell me how to dress when I am off duty.

 

[RedEye1]

No Sh1t, Retards Woried About Lougen Atire, Lmao Tards

 

[fly2ski17]

Isn't there a reason they call it a lounge?

On duty- look sharp; Off duty- it's my business.

Besides, I try not to let anyone know I'm a pilot. I try to come up with a far more interesting line of business than pilot.

 

[Diesel]

Hey if we're talking etiquette.

[SIZE=+1]The Internet offers hundreds of e-card sites, with everything from ‘happy pickle week' to ‘congratulations on your divorce settlement'. But, the rules of etiquette become more important when dealing with e-cards that replace regular greeting cards, such as sympathy cards and holiday greetings to close friends and family. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Getting a birthday e-card didn't impress university student Matt Stanley, who has started to get holiday e-cards from people who used to send him real cards. "If you're going to take the time to send a card, I'd much prefer a card in the mail," said Stanley, who describes himself as a traditionalist. "E- cards are just impersonal." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]According to etiquette expert Karen Mallett, e-cards should only be used when emotion isn't involved. "I totally understand the Internet's importance, but I think that sincerity is key and if you don't really mean it, don't do it. If it's just a rush thing because you don't have time to think about the people you care about, maybe your priorities are a little out of whack," says Mallett, who co-owns In Good Company, a Winnipeg business which specializes in etiquette education. [/SIZE]

 

[zman300]

Hey if we're talking etiquette.

[SIZE=+1]The Internet offers hundreds of e-card sites, with everything from ‘happy pickle week' to ‘congratulations on your divorce settlement'. But, the rules of etiquette become more important when dealing with e-cards that replace regular greeting cards, such as sympathy cards and holiday greetings to close friends and family. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Getting a birthday e-card didn't impress university student Matt Stanley, who has started to get holiday e-cards from people who used to send him real cards. "If you're going to take the time to send a card, I'd much prefer a card in the mail," said Stanley, who describes himself as a traditionalist. "E- cards are just impersonal." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]According to etiquette expert Karen Mallett, e-cards should only be used when emotion isn't involved. "I totally understand the Internet's importance, but I think that sincerity is key and if you don't really mean it, don't do it. If it's just a rush thing because you don't have time to think about the people you care about, maybe your priorities are a little out of whack," says Mallett, who co-owns In Good Company, a Winnipeg business which specializes in etiquette education. [/SIZE]

I'm certainly no etiquette "expert," but when I get a card, e-card or paper, what matters to me is the thought behind the SENDER'S words. I've actually become partial to e-cards because they usually say so little, you HAVE to put some thought into what you're going to write.

Which do I prefer (or would you): a paper Hallmark card with some card-poet's words printed on it, and a hand-written "Love, XXXX?" Or an e-card with a good 2 or more sentences typed by the sender telling you exactly how THEY feel?

Yes, I know some thought has to go into picking just the "right" printed paper card, but certainly not as much as actually sitting down with a pen, or on a keyboard, to formulate a genuine thought to convey your emotions.

Paper or electronic, I want YOUR words, not some two-bit poet's. Mallett's comments can easily apply to either medium.

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, Zman! Personally, I've spent as much, if not more, time choosing ecards vs paper ones. And when it comes to card etiquette; I think those w/the senders' names printed on the inside, instead of handwritten, are the rudest of all. You're exactly right about the greater effort that it takes to write YOUR message. That's just the content alone. Some ecards (like Blue Mountain) allow you to choose font style, size, and color. The musical background ones often have a list of choices so that takes time and thought to choose the one that strikes the right chord (pun intended) for the mood the author is creating. Far more effort and personal expression can go into ecards. I've sent letters to friends and family members using ecards. That works nicely w/BlMt because there is usually no limit. Have you ever run out of room in a paper card? I have. Ever gotten a letter in a card that you had a hard time reading the person's handwriting? I do regularly. In an ecard you can focus on the message without the distraction of trying to decipher the illegible scrawl.

All the above notwithstanding, I recognize that many still enjoy the "real" cards on special occasions. So we send both kinds from my family. The golden rule in etiquette is that "It's the thought that counts". If you didn't get a paper card in the mail on time, a heart-felt, personal message sent in an ecard is FAR BETTER than sending nothing at all. I was introduced to ecards by my husband's Godparents so don't assume the older generation wouldn't enjoy ecards, especially if it means hearing from you more often. Kids are much more interested in choosing an ecard for a relative than a boring (their words) paper one. The interactive cards can be artistic and/or fun.

 

[glasspilot]

Yeah, umm..paper cards, e-cards....no input here from me as I'm a dude. Let me know how the debate turns out.

Nice to see the lounge attire debate start to swing towards sanity. Remind me to send a card to everyone who thinks we should pack Dockers and Polos on the chance we frequent a Hilton Honors Lounge.

 

[Diesel]

I like to make sure I'm in full tuxedo when I enter a lounge.

Anything less is incredibly rude.

Hey glass do you think njawife wears a full evening gown when she entered a lounge 10 years ago?

 

[Mooneymite]

I do at least one 10hr turn on the slave ship(excel) at least a week. I averaged my 10hr turns for the last two years and came up with 2.74 <11 hours a week , and yes, I have dropped the f bomb when I needed it.

Second, When I on duty, I will do my part and make sure that I give every single owner the experience that they deserve. When I am duty my tie is tied, my shoes are shined, my shirt and pants are pressed. But If I choose to wear shorts, tshirts, sweats, running pants, that is my choice.

Don't take me the wrong way, Im not going to come in the lounge naked, nor am I going to dress up to come to a Lounge. You guys really need to relax and worry about something important.

I will wear my running pants and tshirt to every lounge proudly from now on. I have not and will not let another pilot tell me how to dress when I am off duty.

This thread is being taken places unintended by my original post (Now there's a surprise!). People may dress and represent themselves as they deem appropriate. That's strictly their business. Wear whatever you like, act however you like. My objection is to crewmembers who identify themselves as crewmembers by what they wear, or by what they say and who dress and or act inappropriately. We shouldn't drag our profession down. We have enough problems with the Lorenzo wanna-bees casting us as low-lifes without demeaning ourselves.

Someone responded that we can't fix stupid. However, if everyone tries to uphold our professional image, we will all be better off for it.

 

[netjetwife]

I like to make sure I'm in full tuxedo when I enter a lounge. As an update, I asked my husband what he wears. Answer: doesn't usually make the time slot, but wears dark jeans and a polo (if clean) or a t-shirt. Q: has he seen pilots wear anything inappropriate? A: Yes. Pilot just took off uniform shirt and wore tank top undershirt. I think that is the behavior MM is referring to.

Hey glass do you think njawife wears a full evening gown when she entered a lounge 10 years ago?

You're asking the wrong pilot. GR, TN, PK, and Griz saw me earlier this month at an Embassy meeting. Feel free to ask their general impression of my appearance. I gathered (from the hugs) that it met w/their approval... Heeled boots, skirt, jacket. This is crazy for you guys to give me a hard time about clothes. Women usually like to dress up more than men, so this conversation isn't surprising. I think dark jeans will blend in just fine, but I'm now just hoping you guys even get to make it to the lounge. I didn't realize it was open such a short time. That's too bad as it is one of the few perks available to you while you're on tour. Considering how badly underpaid many frac pilots are, I'm sure the free food is appreciated.

 

[Diesel]

The embassy doesn't have a lounge.

Actually the only one that does is SAT and TEB.

There is a reason for per diem.

 

[netjetwife]

The purpose of per diem is understood by all, but the reality is that many frac pilots are so underpaid that they too frequently find themselves relying on the per diem as income and looking for ways to cut corners financially. For some frac pilots a lounge spread is dinner. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

You rather missed the point... I was recently at a hotel in the midst of professionals. I was not overdressed and they were not under-dressed. No one in the crowd stood out or called attention to themselves by dress and/or behavior. It seems that business casual was the unspoken dress code which all adhered to and the atmosphere was relaxed but professional. That is the norm that is being advocated.

Those who defy convention raise eye-brows and detract from the professional image most pilots strive for. The same kind of conversation has taken place on the NJ board regarding footwear, missing ties, etc. It doesn't appear to be a widespread problem, but apparently it happens enough that some pilots have been compelled to raise the issue. I agree that a professional image is important. Those seeking professional compensation can help their cause by looking and acting the part. Good luck to all frac pilots seeking to raise the bar--you deserve it. NJW

 

[glasspilot]

Translation for dummies: (that's all of us)

The purpose of per diem is understood by all, but the reality is that many frac pilots are so underpaid that they too frequently find themselves relying on the per diem as income and looking for ways to cut corners financially. For some frac pilots a lounge spread is dinner. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

This is wife's way creating an image of starving pilots and bolstering her idea that union ship is the only way to force all companies to pay more. How much more doesn't matter as long as it's more...until there are no pilots eating free food.

You rather missed the point...

How one speaks with a fake British accent on a message board is beyond me but wife shows her mastery of English pomp and executes a 10 point snub with a cute little emoticon for flare.

I was recently at a hotel in the midst of professionals. I was not overdressed and they were not under-dressed. No one in the crowd stood out or called attention to themselves by dress and/or behavior. It seems that business casual was the unspoken dress code which all adhered to and the atmosphere was relaxed but professional. That is the norm that is being advocated.

What wife forgets to mention here is that she was at a meeting and not winding down a hard days work in a LOUNGE!!!

Those who defy convention raise eye-brows and detract from the professional image most pilots strive for. The same kind of conversation has taken place on the NJ board regarding footwear, missing ties, etc.

Here is a small taste of the contempt she has for lowlier beings than she. As her avatar clearly states, she has a husband who has flown an F-16 and therefore deserves great respect. She must be careful though not to cast too broad a net or she may alienate the very folks she seeks respect form.

It doesn't appear to be a widespread problem,

VERY NICELY DONE!

but apparently it happens enough that some pilots have been compelled to raise the issue. I agree that a professional image is important. Those seeking professional compensation can help their cause by looking and acting the part. Good luck to all frac pilots seeking to raise the bar--you deserve it. NJW

I'm gonna go vomit now...



Okay, this was in good fun. Really. I agree with a lot of what njw says, but this topic does rub me wrong. Leave me alone when off duty relaxing in a lounge. No, I don't wear flip flops or towels. But whatever I do choose to wear should be held to the standards of the people who own the property, not the wife of some ex-F-16 pilot.

 

[glasspilot]

I used purple 'cause that's the color of Royality!

 

[netjetwife]

This is wife's way creating an image of starving pilots and bolstering her idea that union ship is the only way to force all companies to pay more. Frac pilots paid sub-par wages know what I'm referring to. When you feed your kids with WIC and those in school qualify for the reduced price lunch no dramatization is needed--the financial reality is grim enough. The majority of frac pilots are unionized and glad of it.

What wife forgets to mention here is that she was at a meeting and not winding down a hard days work in a LOUNGE!!! It was an evening meeting that took place on a hectic day which included making child care arrangements and driving to another city. I wore business casual out of respect for the professional atmosphere. I saved my winding down clothes for the room.

Here is a small taste of the contempt she has for lowlier beings than she. I leave it for the readers to decide whose posts are the contemptuous ones. BTW, it's not my posts they complain about when they PM me. As her avatar clearly states, she has a husband who has flown an F-16 When I registered for the board I answered the questions factually, but I seldom mention our AF yrs-- I post here to discuss frac issues. and therefore deserves great respect. Since you brought it up: My family (along with other volunteers) is respected because we stand up for pilots. She must be careful though not to cast too broad a net or she may alienate the very folks she seeks respect form. What I seek is civil discussion of frac issues in an atmosphere of community spirit. I receive PMs expressing respect for my posts, but those are unsolicited.

VERY NICELY DONE! I'm gonna go vomit now... Okay, this was in good fun. Quite the contradiction. Really. Sure... Looks more like damage control. I agree with a lot of what njw says, but this topic does rub me wrong. You had already made that clear earlier so rudeness just detracted from your point. Leave me alone when off duty relaxing in a lounge. No, I don't wear flip flops or towels. But whatever I do choose to wear should be held to the standards of the people who own the property, All members of society contribute to standards when a dress code isn't posted so the opinion of what is appropriate is debatable. not the wife of some ex-F-16 pilot. Your repeated mention of the F16 is very odd considering that I didn't bring it up and it has no bearing, at all, on the subject.

Recap: A pilot posted that hotel employees had complained to him about his coworkers' attire. Other pilots noted similar examples and I support their viewpoint that standards are important. Many people believe that attire should be matched to the proper place and time. I share the concern that standards may be slipping. I have noticed that where I live so in my posts I tried to broaden the topic to include other locations. Like it or not, dress and behavior (poor manners were also a thread topic) are on public display and become part of the atmosphere shared by others. As well intended as this thread is, it is perhaps in vain because those causing the problem may be too selfish to change even if they do read the posts.

Glass, if you're reading you may want to cover your mouth... Hopefully the problem is infrequent and not wide-spread because too may pilots across aviation are paid less than bus drivers and have worse work rules than truckers. The perception of pilots as respected professionals needs to rise--not lower. Everyone needs to work together (on and off duty) to raise the bar. Good luck to those in contract negotiations. NJW

 

[Diesel]

Oh for the love of god stop calling it a frac.

It's a fractional.


How unprofessional.

 

[glasspilot]

Wife, go back and read the last line. Comon, the post was funny.

By the way, have you ever noticed you're one of those people who always have to have the last word?

 

[Diesel]

No she doesn't.

 

[Diesel]

Yes she does.

 

[Diesel]

Wait no she doesn't.

 

[Diesel]

Dammit yes she does.

 

[dime line]

you damm pilots....flip flops, how unprofessional, now you don't deserve that pay raise that I was gonna give you....

 

[Diesel]

but a rising tide lifts all boats?

 

[Diesel]

of course an outgoing tide reveals the bodies.

 

[FracMonkey]

Tides going out for the current Flight Options management...

...I think Mikey and Sanjaya are gonna have a lot of 'splainin to do!

 

[Hung Start]

Screw this!
How 'bout 'dem RED SOX!!!!


Hung

 

[netjetwife]

Wife, go back and read the last line. Comon, the post was funny.

By the way, have you ever noticed you're one of those people who always have to have the last word?

The answer is so obvious, I'm surprised you and Diesel missed it. Try switching to a relevant topic. When you confine your post to NJW (see your's about royalty and Diesel's about my use of the word "frac") you are assuring that I will have the last word, after all I am the expert in that subject... Discuss piloting and the floor is all yours.

In my best British accent: Tsk, tsk, how dare Wife spoil the fun of a pilot? Doesn't she know that royalty comes with responsibility? The spirit of the thread mandates a suitable response:

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=175146063&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[blueridge71]

Here are a couple from USA Today. Not about hotel lounges per se, but relating to casual attire.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/jobcenter/workplace/2006-06-29-flipflop-career_x.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2007-07-09-business-casual-attire_n.htm

As for me, it's jeans or shorts, frequently with flip flops, for the concierge lounge, where I frequently make a meal out of the hors d'ourves. You can wear shorts and flip flops and still not look like a slob. Of course, I can name some people that can wear suit and tie and still be a slob.

Face it people. The whole country has gotten a whole lot more casual. If the global (or local) warming continues, it will probably get more casual. I'm waiting for the day when I can go to work tie optional.