Someone's gotta say it...

[netjetwife]

I will wear whatever I want to any lounge I please. We are not on duty. You guys to need to relax, and enjoy the 10hr turn.

That seems rather rude and arrogant, Kman... I do hope you show more courtesy to your pax than you do to your fellow lounge patrons who are trying to enjoy a professional atmosphere. If you think your attitude doesn't affect others take another look at RNO's post. He said that "I rarely if ever go to the lounges anymore for that reason. The whole experience is going to crap."

Like it, or not, our society has unwritten rules/traditions. Going to the theater (live performance) is widely viewed as a "dress up" event. Some restaurants establish a dress code to maintain the standards their clientèle are expecting when they go out for the evening. When I've gone into lounges w/my husband (personal travel) we dressed in business casual and fit right in with the other guests. I'm with RNO, the atmosphere is part of the experience. I think hotel managers are relying on their professional clientèle to show good judgment and respect for standards. If the standards slip too far, Kman, don't be surprised if a dress code is established for the lounges.

 

[netjetwife]

Besides, There's only so much room in that 7 day tour bag. Shorts, flip flops, and a thin tee shirt take up no room at all!

Doesn't that get cold in the winter? Come on, guys... we're not suggesting a business suit. Dockers and a polo will do. We're trying to point out that impressions do matter and that those who want to earn professional wages are well advised to dress and act accordingly when out on tour representing your frac and fellow pilots. Please consider joining those who are working to raise awareness that pilots are professionals who should be paid as such.

 

[Mooneymite]

I will wear whatever I want to any lounge I please. We are not on duty. You guys to need to relax, and enjoy the 10hr turn.

I sincerely hope that is just flame bait.

You are kidding, right?

Anytime you are identified as a crewmember by what you do, say, or wear...you can affect how our profession is viewed. If we want respect we have to earn it and maintain it. If we expect to be treated and paid as professionals, we have to walk the walk. Is business casual too much to ask?

If you can't be identified as a crewmember, have at it.

 

[learflyer]

Well, around day 6 or 7, whichever clothes you have, you where the ones that pass the sniff test. the cleanest clothes (whatever they may be) wins.

 

[dime line]

Well, around day 6 or 7, whichever clothes you have, you where the ones that pass the sniff test. the cleanest clothes (whatever they may be) wins.

I don't own Dockers, and when I'm off I don't wear business casual, nor do i wear ripped up jeans. But I do own a fine pair of flipflops.

Lear.......your so right

 

[netjetwife]

...If we expect to be treated and paid as professionals, we have to walk the walk. Is business casual too much to ask?

MM, good post! One never knows when they might run into pax or potential clients. Furthermore, I do believe that the hotel is aspiring to an atmosphere that offers its professional patrons something classier than a fast food joint full of high schoolers... To the flipfloppers I say: Please don't discourage the hotels from offering one of the few perks frac pilots enjoy while on tour.

 

[glasspilot]

Wife, you have no place to tell pilots off even if they're showin up in towels wrapped around their waste.

"We're not saying you need to wear..." Who put you in charge of the hotel lounges? There's a concierge in there and if dress is inappropriate don't you think the hotel should monitor that? I'm not gonna let ANYBODY on this board, or my company tell me what to wear or not wear any time when I'm off duty and I'm sure as heL! not gonna let some pilots WIFE do it!

God you rub me wrong sometimes.

I'm sure you'll come back with some post taking the high road pointing out how you're just looking out for the greater good and we're professionals and need to act blah blah blah if we want pay to be blah blah blah.

Why can't you just find a hobby that doesn't involve looking down your nose from you lofty perch of the world greatest pilots wife? Go be the worlds greatest thing of your own.

 

[glasspilot]

And before you or anyone else turns this into me supporting flip flops let me stop you.

The bit that tweaked my beak was wife suggesting I pack polo shirts and Dockers to visit the lounges. What a JOKE!!!! This is our profession and there's no way I'm going to ask anyone living out of a carry-on for 7 or more days to "think of netjetwife and pack Dockers and a polo!"

grrrrrrr. I gotta go drink a beer or somthin.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

regular people

I agree that there are certain times when you should dress up. But one thing that pisses me off is when people act like pilots have to ALWAYS look the part. If I'm in a lounge and someone walks in with shorts and a t shirt, has a drink and is cool, why the hell should I care that he doesnt have dockers and a polo shirt on.

Along the same lines, I was in a restaurant once having a drink with dinner, and one of our owners ( I worked for a fractional then, never again) saw me having a beer, and he called the company and raised this big fit. Interestingly enough, he had a nice big bottle of wine on his table. WTF, now pilots aren't regular people?

I agree that no one should walk around acting like a jerk, but as long as I follow the regs about bottle to throttle and all that stuff, etc., what I do on my time off is MY business, no one else's, especially some pompous schmuck who has more money than me, and therefore thinks he can tell me what to do around the clock. Get out of my face.

 

[netjetwife]

Wife, you have no place to tell pilots off even if they're showin up in towels wrapped around their waste. I disagree that I'm doing that. As a member of the general public that likes to see standards maintained in public places I'm discussing a dress issue on a public message board. I'm also supporting those pilots posting here whose opinion I share.

"We're not saying you need to wear..." That was intended as clarification of an opinion. I think you're overreacting just a bit, Glass...

God you rub me wrong sometimes. As you've always been quick to point out. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list. I'd hate for you to get a rash On the other hand, if it's only sometimes, then perhaps you can accept that we don't always see things the same. What is unchanging is my support for frac pilots to be treated/compensated as the professionals they are.

I'm sure you'll come back with some post taking the high road pointing out how you're just looking out for the greater good and we're professionals and need to act blah blah blah if we want pay to be blah blah blah. That has already been pointed out--by other pilots, as well as myself. You accept the well-intended advice/insight--or you don't. Now not to disappoint you: We did try--for the greater good...

Why can't you just find a hobby that doesn't involve looking down your nose from you lofty perch of the world greatest pilots wife? I'm sorry you feel that way... Luckily, those whose opinion I value most see me differently. Go be the worlds greatest thing of your own.

Glass, this board was designed to accommodate many different posters and it is possible to be selective. Many others (posters and readers) have let me (or my husband) know that they enjoy reading my posts and are appreciative of the support I express. I come here to discuss the issues that affect my family. I've made friends here. I should think the same is true for you and I don't begrudge you any of it. As you don't return that sentiment why not use the ignore function and keep the tone of the board friendly and positive?

 

[Diesel]

Its driving me nuts I can't find the article in the usatoday about hotel guests wearing completely inappropriate things in hotel lounges and what hotels were doing about it.

Some of the interesting stories they had were guests that use the hotel lounge and restaurant wearing nothing but their robe. Kibbles and bits and all hanging out.

Damn I wish i can find it.

I do see all kinds of dress in the lounges. Last I checked there is no dress code or very limited.

Kumbaya kumbaya.....................

 

[x402]

Its driving me nuts I can't find the article in the usatoday about hotel guests wearing completely inappropriate things in hotel lounges and what hotels were doing about it.

Some of the interesting stories they had were guests that use the hotel lounge and restaurant wearing nothing but their robe. Kibbles and bits and all hanging out.

Damn I wish i can find it.

I do see all kinds of dress in the lounges. Last I checked there is no dress code or very limited.

Kumbaya kumbaya.....................

Sleep walkers(nekid)........hotel staff have been trained to offer a towel and get them back to their rooms. Seems to be a Big problem in the UK. Warm beer, I think.

 

[kman]

I do at least one 10hr turn on the slave ship(excel) at least a week. I averaged my 10hr turns for the last two years and came up with 2.74 <11 hours a week , and yes, I have dropped the f bomb when I needed it.

Second, When I on duty, I will do my part and make sure that I give every single owner the experience that they deserve. When I am duty my tie is tied, my shoes are shined, my shirt and pants are pressed. But If I choose to wear shorts, tshirts, sweats, running pants, that is my choice.

Don't take me the wrong way, Im not going to come in the lounge naked, nor am I going to dress up to come to a Lounge. You guys really need to relax and worry about something important.

I will wear my running pants and tshirt to every lounge proudly from now on. I have not and will not let another pilot tell me how to dress when I am off duty.

 

[RedEye1]

No Sh1t, Retards Woried About Lougen Atire, Lmao Tards

 

[fly2ski17]

Isn't there a reason they call it a lounge?

On duty- look sharp; Off duty- it's my business.

Besides, I try not to let anyone know I'm a pilot. I try to come up with a far more interesting line of business than pilot.

 

[Diesel]

Hey if we're talking etiquette.

[SIZE=+1]The Internet offers hundreds of e-card sites, with everything from ‘happy pickle week' to ‘congratulations on your divorce settlement'. But, the rules of etiquette become more important when dealing with e-cards that replace regular greeting cards, such as sympathy cards and holiday greetings to close friends and family. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Getting a birthday e-card didn't impress university student Matt Stanley, who has started to get holiday e-cards from people who used to send him real cards. "If you're going to take the time to send a card, I'd much prefer a card in the mail," said Stanley, who describes himself as a traditionalist. "E- cards are just impersonal." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]According to etiquette expert Karen Mallett, e-cards should only be used when emotion isn't involved. "I totally understand the Internet's importance, but I think that sincerity is key and if you don't really mean it, don't do it. If it's just a rush thing because you don't have time to think about the people you care about, maybe your priorities are a little out of whack," says Mallett, who co-owns In Good Company, a Winnipeg business which specializes in etiquette education. [/SIZE]

 

[zman300]

Hey if we're talking etiquette.

[SIZE=+1]The Internet offers hundreds of e-card sites, with everything from ‘happy pickle week' to ‘congratulations on your divorce settlement'. But, the rules of etiquette become more important when dealing with e-cards that replace regular greeting cards, such as sympathy cards and holiday greetings to close friends and family. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Getting a birthday e-card didn't impress university student Matt Stanley, who has started to get holiday e-cards from people who used to send him real cards. "If you're going to take the time to send a card, I'd much prefer a card in the mail," said Stanley, who describes himself as a traditionalist. "E- cards are just impersonal." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]According to etiquette expert Karen Mallett, e-cards should only be used when emotion isn't involved. "I totally understand the Internet's importance, but I think that sincerity is key and if you don't really mean it, don't do it. If it's just a rush thing because you don't have time to think about the people you care about, maybe your priorities are a little out of whack," says Mallett, who co-owns In Good Company, a Winnipeg business which specializes in etiquette education. [/SIZE]

I'm certainly no etiquette "expert," but when I get a card, e-card or paper, what matters to me is the thought behind the SENDER'S words. I've actually become partial to e-cards because they usually say so little, you HAVE to put some thought into what you're going to write.

Which do I prefer (or would you): a paper Hallmark card with some card-poet's words printed on it, and a hand-written "Love, XXXX?" Or an e-card with a good 2 or more sentences typed by the sender telling you exactly how THEY feel?

Yes, I know some thought has to go into picking just the "right" printed paper card, but certainly not as much as actually sitting down with a pen, or on a keyboard, to formulate a genuine thought to convey your emotions.

Paper or electronic, I want YOUR words, not some two-bit poet's. Mallett's comments can easily apply to either medium.

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, Zman! Personally, I've spent as much, if not more, time choosing ecards vs paper ones. And when it comes to card etiquette; I think those w/the senders' names printed on the inside, instead of handwritten, are the rudest of all. You're exactly right about the greater effort that it takes to write YOUR message. That's just the content alone. Some ecards (like Blue Mountain) allow you to choose font style, size, and color. The musical background ones often have a list of choices so that takes time and thought to choose the one that strikes the right chord (pun intended) for the mood the author is creating. Far more effort and personal expression can go into ecards. I've sent letters to friends and family members using ecards. That works nicely w/BlMt because there is usually no limit. Have you ever run out of room in a paper card? I have. Ever gotten a letter in a card that you had a hard time reading the person's handwriting? I do regularly. In an ecard you can focus on the message without the distraction of trying to decipher the illegible scrawl.

All the above notwithstanding, I recognize that many still enjoy the "real" cards on special occasions. So we send both kinds from my family. The golden rule in etiquette is that "It's the thought that counts". If you didn't get a paper card in the mail on time, a heart-felt, personal message sent in an ecard is FAR BETTER than sending nothing at all. I was introduced to ecards by my husband's Godparents so don't assume the older generation wouldn't enjoy ecards, especially if it means hearing from you more often. Kids are much more interested in choosing an ecard for a relative than a boring (their words) paper one. The interactive cards can be artistic and/or fun.

 

[glasspilot]

Yeah, umm..paper cards, e-cards....no input here from me as I'm a dude. Let me know how the debate turns out.

Nice to see the lounge attire debate start to swing towards sanity. Remind me to send a card to everyone who thinks we should pack Dockers and Polos on the chance we frequent a Hilton Honors Lounge.

 

[Diesel]

I like to make sure I'm in full tuxedo when I enter a lounge.

Anything less is incredibly rude.

Hey glass do you think njawife wears a full evening gown when she entered a lounge 10 years ago?