Some NWA facts for the General

[johnsonrod]

Your panties are really in a twist. You need to relax and take a deep breath

Yeah Mike,

Perhaps Zipperhead should switch to VELCRO! What an idiot! He's a bit high-strung...

 

[DTW320]

Northwest Delta

Aircraft # in service Hourly rate

747-400 16 $177 777 8 $188
747-200 2 $168 767-400 21 $178
747-200F 13* $168 767-300ER 60 $158
A330-300 21 $159 767-300 20 $158
A330-200 11 $159 757 136 $158
757-300 16 $142 737-800 71 $151
757-200 56 $142 MD90 16 $140
A320 75 $137 MD88 120 $140
A319 66 $137
DC9 115* $124
*3 747-200’s scheduled to be retired in 2008
*47 DC9’s scheduled to be retired in 2008

Total true widebodies: 63 Total true widebodies: 109
Total that pay widebody pay (A330 or greater): NWA – 63 Delta-245 (757’s added)

Again, no big deal, but NWA just got a 1.5% raise 1/1/08 that is not reflected in the rates you posted.

 

[michael707767]

Again, no big deal, but NWA just got a 1.5% raise 1/1/08 that is not reflected in the rates you posted.

Delta got a pay raise on Jan 1 also. It will be a minimum of 1.5%, maybe a bit more.....yet to be determined. That raise is not reflected in the rates he posted either.

 

[DAL737FO]

Again, no big deal, but NWA just got a 1.5% raise 1/1/08 that is not reflected in the rates you posted.

You're right it is no big deal. Someone started this thread with how much profit NWA makes versus DAL. That's a non starter, means nothing. If a merger takes place the only thing that is going to count is ALPA merger policy. If you look at the policy is looks at status and career expectations. At Delta pretty much every new hire has the ability to retire off a widebody the same could not be said of NWA. Here is the meat of the policy:


1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

 

[Klamath]

At Delta pretty much every new hire has the ability to retire off a widebody the same could not be said of NWA.

------

WTF? If the two remain separate, a NWA newhire will advance much faster than a DAL newhire. DAL has no upcomming retirements,.. hardly a soul over 55 years old. NWA has lots of crusty Captains that have a retirement and will leave near 60. With half the NWA list above age 50, a newhire at NWA has a lot to gain. I wouldn't look forward to the stagnation at DAL once the growth hiring stops.

If the two merge, who knows, the NWA newhire will not benefit nearly as well.

 

[jonjuan]

At Delta pretty much every new hire has the ability to retire off a widebody the same could not be said of NWA.

Retire? Who cares? How far out are hiring expectations supposed to go? Right now at NWA, a pilot could retire off a 787-same could not be said of DL. What if DL and WN decided to merge? Would you also claim that career expectations for DL pilots say they can retire of a widebody and avoid all LBB overnights?

 

[123]

Northwest Delta

Aircraft # in service Hourly rate

747-400 16 $177 777 8 $188
747-200 2 $168 767-400 21 $178
747-200F 13* $168 767-300ER 60 $158
A330-300 21 $159 767-300 20 $158
A330-200 11 $159 757 136 $158
757-300 16 $142 737-800 71 $151
757-200 56 $142 MD90 16 $140
A320 75 $137 MD88 120 $140
A319 66 $137
DC9 115* $124
*3 747-200’s scheduled to be retired in 2008
*47 DC9’s scheduled to be retired in 2008

Total true widebodies: 63 Total true widebodies: 109
Total that pay widebody pay (A330 or greater): NWA – 63 Delta-245 (757’s added)

Hey, you do know that the 757 only has one aisle in it, don't you?

 

[Noserider76]

Retire? Who cares? How far out are hiring expectations supposed to go? Right now at NWA, a pilot could retire off a 787-same could not be said of DL. What if DL and WN decided to merge? Would you also claim that career expectations for DL pilots say they can retire of a widebody and avoid all LBB overnights?

The 787 is roughly the size of a 767 and would probably pay about the same.

 

[jonjuan]

The 787 is roughly the size of a 767 and would probably pay about the same.

Are you management? Hope your MEC doesn't concede that a 787, being about the same size, should pay the same as a 767.

 

[whymeworry?]

As if either of you two have anything to do with the direction of the company.

Get over it and get over yourselves.

Your both cogs-in-the-wheel with a ticket to the dance. Your opinon and insight mean nothing. Sit back and just enjoy the ride.

 

[General Lee]

Retire? Who cares? How far out are hiring expectations supposed to go? Right now at NWA, a pilot could retire off a 787-same could not be said of DL. What if DL and WN decided to merge? Would you also claim that career expectations for DL pilots say they can retire of a widebody and avoid all LBB overnights?

Thank Gawd for the lack of LBB overnights. That is huge. And our 764s pay more than your future 787s, and your DC9s pay less than our MD88s. That all has to be taken into account. Here is your NWA fleet plan for 2008:


TO: All Pilots
FROM: Tim Rainey, SVP- Flight Operations and System Operations Control
DATE: January 17, 2008
RE: Flying Plan for 2008

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your commitment in 2007. Looking back over the last 12 months, it was a year of extremes from an operational point of view. We had a tough spring, an even tougher summer, followed by a great fall with excellent completion factors and a holiday season characterized by outstanding operational performance despite a few days of snow in MSP and fog in DTW.

As we look ahead to 2008, I’d like to provide you an overview of the flying plan as it relates to fleet utilization and pilot hiring.

Fleet

The level of flight operations is set based on the scheduled marketing plan for 2008. According to that plan, by the end of ’08, Northwest will operate a total mainline fleet of 329 aircraft - 269 narrow body and 60 wide bodies. The following are some specifics with regard to each fleet.

747-400 – Northwest will operate an additional daily frequency between Detroit and Amsterdam utilizing the 747-400 between June and October.

747 Freighters - In 2008, we will reduce 747 freighter flying. Following the recent retirement of an additional J freighter, we will utilize a core fleet of ten aircraft. Eight aircraft will be actively flying (down two from 2007) but at significantly higher utilization. One will remain available as a spare and one will be cycled through a scheduled maintenance rotation. In certain periods of 2008 we will have more than one spare aircraft due to availability of the maintenance allocation and utilizing remaining green time on the J-powered aircraft.

747-200 - The Charter group currently has one 747-200 passenger configured aircraft dedicated to charter flying (primarily military charters). A second passenger configured aircraft and a freighter will be added to the military charter program effective in October.

A330 – Expanded utilization of the A330 in trans-Atlantic markets continues with the introduction of new flights between Portland, OR and Amsterdam starting in March; new flights between Minneapolis/St. Paul and Paris Charles de Gaulle starting in April and new flights between Seattle and London Heathrow starting in June.

757s - In 2008, Northwest will expand use of the 757 in trans-Atlantic markets. We will be flying double daily from EWR-AMS starting March 29 and will add DTW-LGW starting May 1, in addition to the routes we currently serve.
Flying Plan for 2008
January 17, 2008

Page 2

A319s - Northwest will continue to operate 57 Airbus A319s by year’s end (ten more than called for in the plan of reorganization). Northwest is in final discussions with the NBA and has an agreement in principle to re-establish a VIP charter program using seven specially configured aircraft. NBA-designated aircraft will be going through interior modifications starting in late summer for targeted completion by the start of the ‘08 NBA season.

DC-9s - The number of DC-9s will be reduced to 68 aircraft over the course of the year, with the largest reduction coming after the summer. We plan to operate a year-end fleet consisting of 34 - 50s, 12 - 40s and 22 - 30s (10 fewer than projected in the plan of reorganization).

Pilot Hiring
The impact of the Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act, which was recently signed into law, raises the retirement age from 60 years to 65 years for pilots serving on commercial flights operated by U.S. air carriers. The Crew Resources group is evaluating the effect on Northwest’s staffing projections. In the meantime, there is little impact expected on Northwest’s current hiring plans. Those plans call for between 200 to 250 new hire pilots by the end of 2008. As we see how many pilots over age 60 elect to stay we will adjust our new hire numbers accordingly. Beginning in January ‘08 we have started the flow up process with Mesaba and will see Mesaba pilots starting initial training in the upcoming months.

787
We are planning to take our first delivery in April/May of ’09, with the first revenue flying to begin in the summer of ’09. We are waiting for Boeing to accomplish two important milestones. First, to get power on the aircraft. Second, to accomplish the first test flight. The accomplishment of these two milestones will help us determine when we will commence training for instructors and line pilots.


Flying Plan for 2008
January 17, 2008

Page 3
As you can see, our overall staffing levels are increasing in 2008, although our overall fleet count is currently planned to decrease in 2008 by 27 aircraft (24 DC9 and 3 747-200). This may appear counter-intuitive, but a number of factors contribute to this result:

• The monthly maxes used for planning staffing levels have been reduced when compared to 2007, which increases staffing requirements.

• Reserve staffing levels have increased to improve operational reliability in 2008.

• Our aircraft utilization increases in 2008, so although we have fewer total aircraft, we are flying the remaining aircraft slightly more, thus requiring more staffing per aircraft.

• We will launch a number of new international routes in 2008, which not only effect aircraft utilization, but also drive an increased amount of flying that requires augmented flight crews. You see this particularly on the A330 and B757 fleets.

• Additional focus has been placed on flying military charter missions in 2008. To maximize the number of missions flown, additional staffing is necessary. This is most noticeable on the 747-200 fleet.

As a result of these drivers, all fleets are projected to experience staffing increases in 2008, with the exception of the DC-9 fleet. The overall growth amongst the other fleets is projected to more than offset the reduction in required DC-9 staffing. As a result, Northwest’s goal is to allow DC-9 positions to reduce naturally through bid outs to other positions and retirements, although I cannot definitively rule out a small number of displacements from the CA position should the bid outs or retirements not reach forecasted levels.

Some of this information is subject to change as we move through 2008. I will continue to update you on significant fleet and staffing level changes, and I also encourage you to review the monthly Flying Bulletins published by Crew Resources for details on projected staffing level changes across all fleets.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflier]

JMHO pilots at NWA have a greater chance of retiring off a widebody than pilots at DAL.

A quick glance at the ratio of widebody to narrowbody aircraft seems to be greater than DAL.

Additionally, NWA has a greater number of older age pilots.

 

[DAL737FO]

Hey, you do know that the 757 only has one aisle in it, don't you?

Our 757's are a combined category with the 767 so they pay the same. This is all going to be taken care of way above our paygrades anyway. I would imagine that it will also go to arbitration. Some of the old timers, that have gone through mergers before, say if in the end everyone is pissed off then it must have been a fair merger.

 

[Fly4hire]

I would imagine that it will also go to arbitration.

Hopefully not. Maybe we'll buck the trend. Mutually agreeable would serve us all better. Good thing it's not decided here or it would probably be pistols at 50 paces at dawn. Personally I think DAL has far more risk in an arbitration.

Some of the old timers, that have gone through mergers before, say if in the end everyone is pissed off then it must have been a fair merger

The only pilot who will be happy with a fair deal is seniority #1

 

[Noserider76]

Are you management? Hope your MEC doesn't concede that a 787, being about the same size, should pay the same as a 767.

Are you new in the industy smartass? I hope every new delivery brings a pay increase, but what is it about a 787 that you think will result in a monumental pay raise?