Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[General Lee]

Internal Memorandum

Date: December 15, 2008
To: Delta Colleagues Worldwide
From: Bob Cortelyou
Subject: Bob Cortelyou Memo: Combined fleet helps us maximize the profitability of every route

One of the principles of Delta's merger with Northwest is to leverage the strength of our combined aircraft fleet to build the most durable, profitable airline network in the world. Given the difficult economic environment we face, this flexibility is even more crucial and we are moving quickly to create a flight schedule for 2009 that optimizes the profitability of every route. In the spring, our customers will begin to see fleet changes that better deploy our largest aircraft to match customer demand between our hubs and highest density routes, while smaller aircraft will right-size markets where we currently have more lift than required.

For instance, between New York-JFK and Venice we will introduce daily Airbus A330 service during the peak summer season to offer more seats than have previously been available with 767-300 aircraft. In markets like Portland to Tokyo, we will right-size from an A330 to a 767-300 to better match projected demand.

Changes to be loaded into Delta schedules in the coming weeks include:
Market Aircraft Effective Date
Minneapolis - Paris-Charles DeGaulle Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER April 2009
Atlanta - London Gatwick Delta 767-300ER to Northwest A330 April 2009
Atlanta - Honolulu Delta 767-400ER to Northwest 747-400 April 2009
Amsterdam - Mumbai Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER April 2009
Detroit - London Heathrow Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER May 2009
Newark - Amsterdam Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER May 2009
Atlanta - Tokyo-Narita One daily flight flown with Northwest 747-400 in addition to existing Delta 777-200ER service May 2009
Portland - Amsterdam Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER June 2009
Portland - Tokyo-Narita Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER June 2009
Atlanta - Amsterdam Delta 767-300ER to Northwest A330 June 2009
Atlanta - Rome Delta 767-300ER to Northwest A330 June 2009
New York-JFK - Athens Delta 767-300ER to Northwest A330 June 2009
Guam - Tokyo-Narita #1 Northwest A330 to Delta 767-300ER June 2009
New York-JFK - Venice Delta 767-300ER to Northwest A330 June 2009

Before our merger, neither Delta nor Northwest had the flexibility to optimize routes for profitability or significantly change the scope of our fleets without making large, expensive aircraft orders. This is why our merger makes us even stronger in the current economic climate and makes our flexibility the envy of our peers.

We recognize that while these changes are good for our business and our long-term success, they will require changes for our employees during the transition period until we are able to integrate seniority and align work rules for our combined employee groups. Your divisional leaders will share with you how these fleet changes could impact your area.

Between markets noted above and new cities we will be serving around the globe next year, we know you will embrace these opportunities to fly to new destinations. We remain committed to keeping the lines of communication open with you and your divisional leaders as we make changes to ensure Delta is well positioned for the environment we face in 2009 and beyond.

This is an exciting time for Delta. Your work every day continues to be a pivotal contribution to Delta's international success. Our airline, even with the most convenient connections to the most destinations around the globe, cannot be successful without your commitment to giving our customers the best service every day.

Bob



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

First announcement of many!

 

[~~~^~~~]

.

Bob, I'll take "Airline mergers for $200"

A: A loss of status quo, commute on an RJ and training events for most of the airline.

Q: What is a seniority award from Richard Bloch?

 

[GogglesPisano]

.

Bob, I'll take "Airline mergers for $200"

A: A loss of status quo, commute on an RJ and training events for most of the airline.

Q: What is a seniority award from Richard Bloch?

If that's the worst headed our way, in this global economic meltdown, I'll take it.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

.

Bob, I'll take "Airline mergers for $200"

A: A loss of status quo, commute on an RJ and training events for most of the airline.

Q: What is a seniority award from Richard Bloch?

LMFAO!!!:laugh:

 

[On Your Six]

Looks like the A330 guys make out pretty well - Rome, Venice and Athens (without riots) are nice places to spend your time... Safer than Mumbai. The 744 pilots should enjoy additional HNL layovers as well.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Looks like the A330 guys make out pretty well - Rome, Venice and Athens (without riots) are nice places to spend your time... Safer than Mumbai. The 744 pilots should enjoy additional HNL layovers as well.

Was there ever any doubt? At least, they accept the fact that their pension could be terminated before any pilot is furloughed, I do respect them for that.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Hey guys,

FWIW, there's a lovely DC-9-50 (776NC if I remember correctly) in full new Delta colors parked in front of the NW Hangar adjacent to I-494. I guess they don't plan on parking that one tomorrow, good news for everyone!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Nope probably not for at least two to three years per the original plan.

 

[RedRum]

Nope probably not for at least two to three years per the original plan.

Too bad the arbitrators and DAL management didn't bother to discuss this prior to the SLI award.

"Yesterdays trash is today's treasure"

Just another example of why the DAL guys made out on the SLI award.

 

[~~~^~~~]

RedRum - what? Your DC9 pilots are mixed with the 757/767 guys at my end of the list. That's at least (747SO, MD88B, A320B, 737B, 757/767B) four seats of promotions right off the bat.

How the flip did Delta guys make out on anything? This is really a sincere question because I've been seriously thinking of bailing for plan B. Some news that suggests that my anus' virginity is intact would be most welcome.

I expect the Company will get scope relief within two years. All they have ordered for replacement aircraft is RJ's. If the answer to that question is Alaska, well, do you want them getting what you just got? Wonder if the Allied Pilots Association is looking for some business?

 

[RedRum]

RedRum - what? Your DC9 pilots are mixed with the 757/767 guys at my end of the list. That's at least (747SO, MD88B, A320B, 737B, 757/767B) four seats of promotions right off the bat.

How the flip did Delta guys make out on anything? This is really a sincere question because I've been seriously thinking of bailing for plan B. Some news that suggests that my anus' virginity is intact would be most welcome.

What always seems to get lost in this discussion is SENIORITY.

Where are most of the pilots senior to you? Are you senior to most of the MD88 FO pilots?

The only reason you are holding a B767ER is because you are JUNIOR. Look at the list! MD88 FO seats are more senior to you because QOL issues.

Don't mistake the fact that you are on the 767ER because you are more senior. You are no more entitled to a B767ER seat than I am a DC9 FO seat.

I am trying not to get personal here. Please believe this. I want to get along with everyone at Delta. You guys just need to know where you stand. I, as a 2000 new hire at NWA, am now JUNIOR to a 2007 new hire at Delta.

There is no problem with this from a ratio standpoint. You guys have a LOT of MD88 FOs senior to you that go for the quality of life. That's what this is all about. If I am senior enough to hold your 767ER after bif period 5, I will bid it. Personally I would rather be home with family and friends than commuting to NYC. Go ahead and bid the 767. You may be surprised.... you may end up in the same place. I am sure that is where you will be.

I hope this merger works out for everyone. Most likely it will.

Can't wait to work with you guys because I think you guys are all just like us in the long run.

Cheers,

 

[~~~^~~~]

RedRum,

We're a whole lot more like you used to be and you are a whole lot more like we used to be ... that's for sure.

 

[Sedona16]

Don't mistake the fact that you are on the 767ER because you are more senior. You are no more entitled to a B767ER seat than I am a DC9 FO seat.

Cheers,

The point is he is and has been flying this airplane. Although ACL is being very easy going about the fact he is getting bumped, had this merger not taken place the "jr guys" would continue flying the 767(ER). That will change after the merger and airplanes are moved around. You have reasons to be pissed but so do the jr Delta guys.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ACL's got reasons to like it up there and he knows few will join him. He's got it made and is young enough to wait the NWA side out.

His circumstance is better than what most folks have to deal with... and good for him. Superpilot 92 is going to make out on this deal well also. They are great guys - none of this is personal, but we can cheer for those who are going to make it good in this business.

 

[Sedona16]

ACL's got reasons to like it up there and he knows few will join him. He's got it made and is young enough to wait the NWA side out.

His circumstance is better than what most folks have to deal with... and good for him. Superpilot 92 is going to make out on this deal well also. They are great guys - none of this is personal, but we can cheer for those who are going to make it good in this business.

I agree. The thing that really stings is not only being bumped out of airplane but out of base where you have a house, friends, quality of life that you have built over several years. Its what you are used to. Due to the merger and no base/NB fences it royaly screws up the life of many Delta pilots for many years to come. I know Im not saying anything that hasnt already been said but it bares repeating. I still havent been able to come to terms with how badly this merger is going to screw up my and my families life over the next few years. For the record I voted no on the JCBA and felt the approach that was persued was continually giving the NWA MEC leverage we never should have let go of. That said we are where we are and trying to adjust.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I just choose to see a silver lining in it. I will probably bid MSP, so that some people that cannot move from ATL, get to stay. I prefer the commute there than NYC!

 

[~~~^~~~]

I agree. The thing that really stings is not only being bumped out of airplane but out of base where you have a house, friends, quality of life that you have built over several years. Its what you are used to. Due to the merger and no base/NB fences it royaly screws up the life of many Delta pilots for many years to come. I know Im not saying anything that hasnt already been said but it bares repeating. I still havent been able to come to terms with how badly this merger is going to screw up my and my families life over the next few years. For the record I voted no on the JCBA and felt the approach that was persued was continually giving the NWA MEC leverage we never should have let go of. That said we are where we are and trying to adjust.

Sedona - Your post really sums it up perfectly.

 

[Truckdriver]

Sedona - Your post really sums it up perfectly.

I agree. Only wanted to work for Delta so I wouldn't have to commute. Now it looks like I'll be forced to do so in the next few years. Hopefully growth out of LAX, PDX, or SEA will help open up enough positions out west that everyone can be in the base they want to be and be happy. Once we have guys hitting age 65, everything will be fine until they change it to age 70.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree. Only wanted to work for Delta so I wouldn't have to commute. Now it looks like I'll be forced to do so in the next few years. Hopefully growth out of LAX, PDX, or SEA will help open up enough positions out west that everyone can be in the base they want to be and be happy. Once we have guys hitting age 65, everything will be fine until they change it to age 70.

Sad but true.
I think that there will be plenty of positions west of the Mississippi!

 

[hockeypilot44]

ACL's got reasons to like it up there and he knows few will join him. He's got it made and is young enough to wait the NWA side out.

His circumstance is better than what most folks have to deal with... and good for him. Superpilot 92 is going to make out on this deal well also. They are great guys - none of this is personal, but we can cheer for those who are going to make it good in this business.

I'm younger and senior to superpilot. I've been looking at a seniority list crystal ball. My percentage up the seniority list compared to where it would be had we stayed separate gets worse and worse every single year until 2024 where I am 53 percent from the bottom compared to 42 percent from bottom had we stayed separate. After that, the percentages start getting closer, but until my last year in 2046, I am behind my entire career. Superpilot would have been better off without the merger as would myself. Contracts are temporary, seniority is forever. The Delta pilots hands down won this arbitration. Katz is a worthless lawyer that loses every single seniority case he deals with. Why ALPA still employs him is beyond me. That being said, it is more beneficial to all of us to just suck it up and move on. No one wants a US Airways' situation. Any Delta pilot that thinks he/she didn't make out well, just look at a crystal ball of your future percentages. I guarantee you made out unless you are one of the few unfortunate pilots on the bottom.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will tell you that. I am with in 1% relative seniority pre vs post merger. It did absolutely noting for me. It kept my career expectations!

 

[Truckdriver]

I'm younger and senior to superpilot. I've been looking at a seniority list crystal ball. My percentage up the seniority list compared to where it would be had we stayed separate gets worse and worse every single year until 2024 where I am 53 percent from the bottom compared to 42 percent from bottom had we stayed separate. After that, the percentages start getting closer, but until my last year in 2046, I am behind my entire career. Superpilot would have been better off without the merger as would myself. Contracts are temporary, seniority is forever. The Delta pilots hands down won this arbitration. Katz is a worthless lawyer that loses every single seniority case he deals with. Why ALPA still employs him is beyond me. That being said, it is more beneficial to all of us to just suck it up and move on. No one wants a US Airways' situation. Any Delta pilot that thinks he/she didn't make out well, just look at a crystal ball of your future percentages. I guarantee you made out unless you are one of the few unfortunate pilots on the bottom.

Sorry read the original post wrong.

 

[jetjockey#1]

I'm younger and senior to superpilot. I've been looking at a seniority list crystal ball. My percentage up the seniority list compared to where it would be had we stayed separate gets worse and worse every single year until 2024 where I am 53 percent from the bottom compared to 42 percent from bottom had we stayed separate. After that, the percentages start getting closer, but until my last year in 2046, I am behind my entire career. Superpilot would have been better off without the merger as would myself. Contracts are temporary, seniority is forever. The Delta pilots hands down won this arbitration. Katz is a worthless lawyer that loses every single seniority case he deals with. Why ALPA still employs him is beyond me. That being said, it is more beneficial to all of us to just suck it up and move on. No one wants a US Airways' situation. Any Delta pilot that thinks he/she didn't make out well, just look at a crystal ball of your future percentages. I guarantee you made out unless you are one of the few unfortunate pilots on the bottom.

It is not very nice to mock us, when we are trying to get over the fact that EVERY pilot at Delta Air Lines, yeah the one with the hardest interview process in the industry, I know I interviewed at 3 legacies, and I have worked at 2 so far, have their career expectations pushed back at least 5 years. 70% of pilots at DAL have lost seniority power, because of NWA. Because of NWA, hundreds of 76 FOs are assuming that the NWA guys will displace us when a new bid comes out and they shuffle equipment. I tell you what, stay on a NWA A/C and base for the next 5 years, and then start bitching. I am sure you will not, you will jump on one of Delta's widebody ASAP. So shut up, today you can hold a widebody, when you couldn't before, and you still have your pension, for now....

 

[General Lee]

It is not very nice to mock us, when we are trying to get over the fact that EVERY pilot at Delta Air Lines, yeah the one with the hardest interview process in the industry, I know I interviewed at 3 legacies, and I have worked at 2 so far, have their career expectations pushed back at least 5 years. 70% of pilots at DAL have lost seniority power, because of NWA. Because of NWA, hundreds of 76 FOs are assuming that the NWA guys will displace us when a new bid comes out and they shuffle equipment. I tell you what, stay on a NWA A/C and base for the next 5 years, and then start bitching. I am sure you will not, you will jump on one of Delta's widebody ASAP. So shut up, today you can hold a widebody, when you couldn't before, and you still have your pension, for now....

In 5 to 6 years when the NWA guys all start to bailout, we will be golden. There will be widebody Capt seat bids out every month, with 744 and A330 seats opening up in wide numbers. That is good for ALL of us. So, ride it out for the next 5 years or so on something you don't mind flying. If you are young, then no problem. Maybe you weren't around after 9-11, during all of the furloughs. A lot of people were bumped down a couple plane types after we got rid of the L1011s and 727s, and it took about 5 years to start hiring again and moving back up. I was lucky and stayed on the 767, but I may have even had a couple months of reserve back then, and I think I took out my frustration on people on FI. Sorry about that! It will all come back eventually, and if you get bumped your transition back won't be too tough. Tough it out man! Hopefully everyone will stay employed, that is the main thing. Atleast we have this Compass thing and the 76-70 seat protection deal. Better than nothing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

In 5 to 6 years when the NWA guys all start to bailout, we will be golden. There will be widebody Capt seat bids out every month, with 744 and A330 seats opening up in wide numbers. That is good for ALL of us. So, ride it out for the next 5 years or so on something you don't mind flying. If you are young, then no problem.

Bye Bye--General Lee

That is my plan. MSP ERB

 

[General Lee]

That is my plan. MSP ERB

MSP won't have an ER base, rather a standard 757/767 base that does domestic and INTL flying, like they do currently in MSP and DTW. If they add 767ER flying, that flying will be flown by the current MSP 757 pilots. I think they will do some 767 sim training or a DVD to see the differences. If there is a MSP 777 base, then that would be exclusive to Delta pilots for 5 years though. You might be able to hold MSP 757B though, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[767/757]

MSP won't have an ER base, rather a standard 757/767 base that does domestic and INTL flying, like they do currently in MSP and DTW. If they add 767ER flying, that flying will be flown by the current MSP 757 pilots. I think they will do some 767 sim training or a DVD to see the differences. If there is a MSP 777 base, then that would be exclusive to Delta pilots for 5 years though. You might be able to hold MSP 757B though, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

How about a MSP 88/90 base? :0)

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

General,

I don't think we'll be seeing any additional 76 "domestic" bases. All will be "ER" and operate dual operations. LAX and ATL will be the sole remaining separate ER and domestic bases.

...and probably will be converted in a few years.

 

[fishguy79]

In 5 to 6 years when the NWA guys all start to bailout, we will be golden. There will be widebody Capt seat bids out every month, with 744 and A330 seats opening up in wide numbers. That is good for ALL of us. So, ride it out for the next 5 years or so on something you don't mind flying. If you are young, then no problem. Maybe you weren't around after 9-11, during all of the furloughs. A lot of people were bumped down a couple plane types after we got rid of the L1011s and 727s, and it took about 5 years to start hiring again and moving back up. I was lucky and stayed on the 767, but I may have even had a couple months of reserve back then, and I think I took out my frustration on people on FI. Sorry about that! It will all come back eventually, and if you get bumped your transition back won't be too tough. Tough it out man! Hopefully everyone will stay employed, that is the main thing. Atleast we have this Compass thing and the 76-70 seat protection deal. Better than nothing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What makes you so sure things are going to be so great. I was hired in 01. My pre-merge seniority number moved up around 3700 numbers. I almost moved up 4000 numbers and I am still the bottom of the barrel. My new number is almost 11k. Take a look at Mother D's history of replacing airframes, it sucks! 73-200/300,L10,76-200 what replaced them? we had around 120 727's which we replaced with 71 73-800's. We have over 100 88's 70 DC-9's, a huge amount of 75's combined. How many 747's are there, they are going away. The only airframe with a current long term future here is the 777 and we have a whole 10 of those! When I was hired I thought I could be a bottom rung captain on something when I hit around sixty percent of this list. Well I am there on the pre-merge list and I am stil wondering if I am going to get re-furloughed. I personally feel we have a 50 percent chance of having history repeat itself for the next 7 years. Please explain to me why I am wrong and what is this companies grand plans. I hear a lot of talk of fleet flexibility and permanently removing costs from the balance sheet. Hate to be a pessimist, but 5 years on the street has made me bitter.