So where does the next generation come from???

[snozberry]

What would requiring 1500TT really do? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe both pilots in the Colgan crash had over 1500 hours. How many hours did the NW crew have that overshot the airport? How many hours did the DL crew have that landed on the taxi way? Nobody died in those two examples, but if the NW plane ran out of fuel? Or if there was another plane or vehicle on the taxi way when DL landed? How about the WN in BUR? Or the AA in LIT? How many hours did these crews have? This is just another example of the Govt. instilling a false sense of security to the public. Why don't we make it so the problem pilots can be fired. We've all flown with people who are "accidents waiting to happen". What happens to them when they fail multiple checkrides? Or violate a clearance or FAR? Nothing! They can't be fired because the union will save their job. And if the union can't, their lawyers will. Congress should make it so companies and the FAA can get unsafe pilots grounded permanately. Killing hopes and dreams of somebody with less then 1500 is not the solution.

 

[007]

You missed the point. Age 65 was coming whether we wanted it or not. The FAA was very clear on that point. The choice Prater had to make was 1) be part of the FAA's committee reviewing how the change would be implemented or 2) sit outside the building throwing rocks and bitching how life sucks.

1. And exactly how much input did they provide?? Only the kind that helped the old farts...i.e. no tougher medicals etc.

2. Us younger guys were doing this, throwing rocks.

 

[ualdriver]

1. And exactly how much input did they provide?? Only the kind that helped the old farts...i.e. no tougher medicals etc.

Did not allowing guys to come back who were over the age of 60 and who were already retired "help the old farts?"

 

[414Flyer]

What would requiring 1500TT really do? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe both pilots in the Colgan crash had over 1500 hours. How many hours did the NW crew have that overshot the airport? How many hours did the DL crew have that landed on the taxi way? Nobody died in those two examples, but if the NW plane ran out of fuel? Or if there was another plane or vehicle on the taxi way when DL landed? How about the WN in BUR? Or the AA in LIT? How many hours did these crews have? This is just another example of the Govt. instilling a false sense of security to the public. Why don't we make it so the problem pilots can be fired. We've all flown with people who are "accidents waiting to happen". What happens to them when they fail multiple checkrides? Or violate a clearance or FAR? Nothing! They can't be fired because the union will save their job. And if the union can't, their lawyers will. Congress should make it so companies and the FAA can get unsafe pilots grounded permanately. Killing hopes and dreams of somebody with less then 1500 is not the solution.

Well its not just hours, but what those hours are. Someone with 1500 TT, thats been flying such as 135 freight dog, gets a whole lot more out of a given hour than someone who was an hour as an 121 FO. Not sure if you did any time freight doggin' it, but as a single pilot part 135 PIC, you get quite a bit of experience the hard way.

Someone hired with 500 TT, has very little time so far that is not out of a training environment, and has really not exercised that much judgement so far, in comparison. And if they have 500 TT, and fly as 1000 hours as an FO, well they may know 121 ops better, but for airmanship, I would still take the freight dog anytime.

Being a 135 freight dog used to be a natural progression before going to the commuters/regionals. Now we ended up with FOs who never did freight and probably look down on that lowly Seneca or 402 driver. But in reality that freight dog could easily fly circles around that shiny jet FO, and know a lot more about weather and airmanship.

 

[Bringupthebird]

There is less an less freight flying available due mostly to the electronic processing of checks and the consolidation in freight ops.

 

[414Flyer]

True, I had forgotten about that, but there are still other jobs out there to build experience, hours, judgment and airmanship. I would just rather an airline pilot not be an entry level job.

 

[scoreboardII]

so where does the next generation come from???

India

 

[MD11Drvr]

Gust,

What a great character...

"He's a cake-eater, he's a clown, he's a bad station chief, and I don't like to cast aspersions on a guy, but he's going to get us all killed." GA

 

[Flightdawg]

1. And exactly how much input did they provide?? Only the kind that helped the old farts...i.e. no tougher medicals etc.

2. Us younger guys were doing this, throwing rocks.

The tougher medicals work both ways. If it was up to me, there'd be no age limit. It'd be based on strict medical and physical fitness tests along with a cog test. This would take out many senior pilots but also many younger guys such as those who didn't qualify for the military or eat too much airport food with too little exercise.

If you want to complain about Prater, I'm sure you don't need an excuse, so just do it. If you want to complain about the Age 65 issue and the FAA, then I respectfully suggest you look at the facts.

 

[Flightdawg]

Did not allowing guys to come back who were over the age of 60 and who were already retired "help the old farts?"

Come back as newhires?

 

[waveflyer]

Stricter medicals would be great in a perfect world. But when the FAA administers that- I want no part of it- and I run triathalons.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Stricter medicals would be great in a perfect world. But when the FAA administers that- I want no part of it- and I run triathalons.

So you don't trust the Federal Govt? Interesting coming from a liberal.....

 

[waveflyer]

So you don't trust the Federal Govt? Interesting coming from a liberal.....

Shut up.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Shut up.

Intelligent response...You sound like Pelosi now...Why don't you trust the FAA? Aren't they here to help us?

 

[Flopgut]

If you want to complain about Prater, I'm sure you don't need an excuse, so just do it. If you want to complain about the Age 65 issue and the FAA, then I respectfully suggest you look at the facts.

I will agree with you on this, at least in part. Prater made it happen when and how it did. Perhaps the FAA would have eventually changed it. But it would not have been at this time and I don´t believe it would have been written to be a windfall. Look at how the FAA is working out the duty and rest rule changes. If Congress doesn´t step in it will still take years and they are further along with that than they were age 65.

FWIW, I support no age limit as well. But if we are to do that I believe we should abandon the seniority principle as well. Start command evaluation at 5 to 10 years and go with rostering and assignments.

You spoke of the lesser of two evils. Let me point out that when faced with going on strike to fight Lorenzo early in Prater´s career, strikers like John only agreed to do so if ALPA paid strike pay. What I´m saying is: John does not display the same regard for junior pilots now that he insisted on for himself as a junior pilot. Slanting the lesser of two evils in his own favor is very much a pattern of behavior with him. Example: He wanted ALL of ALPA assessed so he could be taken care of early in his career. He´s put an embargo on advancement for todays junior ALPA member. So far, John has ducked this critique but I think we´ll bring him around. Or he won´t be running ALPA much longer.