So was B19 right or wrong?

[imacdog]

Tell that to the people that planned their budget with that overtime or full schedule in mind. Pre-'08 it was normal to see extended days and overtime to the tune of 10-15% of you base pay. People made commitments based on what they thought their earnings would be and now what they are bringing in does not equal what they thought they would have.

The people that made committments based on extra money they were making are straight up idiots.

From a soon to be furloughed guy.

 

[glasspilot]

Yeah, what imacdog said...

Plus, why would you worry about the guys not getting overtime when there are THOUSANDS of guys not getting anytime right now?

Plus, would the folks bitchin about Avantair COO pay care to post what the COO at NetJets makes? Why is it pilots at other companies are complaining about our company...right before a massive furlough at their company? Do you somehow blame us?

 

[AftCG182]

Yeah, what imacdog said...

Plus, why would you worry about the guys not getting overtime when there are THOUSANDS of guys not getting anytime right now?

Plus, would the folks bitchin about Avantair COO pay care to post what the COO at NetJets makes? Why is it pilots at other companies are complaining about our company...right before a massive furlough at their company? Do you somehow blame us?

Life is downright miserable right now for a lot of our brothers/sisters in our industry. Our (Avantair's) COO, along with the rest of Avantair's management types, through their careful pre-planning for the Fractional's current situation deserve more than a little credit. We're in decent shape thanks to their proactiveness. There shouldn't be any hard feelings towards anyone at Avantair. We're not intentionally taking advantage of anyone's hardship, nor will we ever do that.

As I've said many, many times... Let's work together through this hard time. We'll survive, just like always. I had labor with Brazillian "legitimate" landscapers in the morning and drive skydivers in the afternoon/nites post-9/11 to pay my bills. It sucked, but it worked out. Let's suck it up, keep things in perspective, and work through this while keeping our dignity and professionalism about us.

I understand that Flightinfo is more about debate than pep-talk, but we can't afford to f-around right now. Solidarity as a pilot group will get us through this.

 

[gunfyter]

By the way guys not having overtime available or reducing your work schedule is very different from refusing your yearly salary increase. I doubt anyone is doing that

People did more than that ... they took voluntary measures -- reduced schedule and pay....

So yes they earned LESS than the published payscales.

 

[jonjuan]

People did more than that ... they took voluntary measures -- reduced schedule and pay....

So yes they earned LESS than the published payscales.

But it was still voluntary........

 

[gunfyter]

But it was still voluntary........

OK... I thought that was the point. Am I wrong?

 

[Willy21]

The people that made committments based on extra money they were making are straight up idiots.

From a soon to be furloughed guy.

I understand your situation, but the one guy I am thinking about made a commitment to pay for his wife's medical bills that are not covered by insurance. I would say that any one of us would do the same given similar circumstances. It would be a hard pill to swallow knowing that the money you thought was going to pay for the treatment that might keep you wife alive is not going to make it to your bank account.

As for the guys/gals with boats, vacation homes, cars and airplanes......, that is a discussion for another day.

Again, you can't understand why people do what they do until you walk in their shoes.

 

[CA1900]

I'll repost them and highlight them in bold for you...

We need a popcorn smiley here, too. :laugh:

 

[fischman]

fischman I wouldn't worry about Avantair and people leaving. Our new owners are quite happy here. We hear it all the time. I dont get why it is so offensive that Avantair is doing well. The talk about Netjets here at Avantair is always very positive. We all feel for the 500 who will be out of work and put ourselves in their shoes. Why do you wish the same for us? I just don't get it. The fact is we are going to be here for a long time. We are well taken care of and thankful that we dont have to worry about our next paycheck.
By the way guys not having overtime available or reducing your work schedule is very different from refusing your yearly salary increase. I doubt anyone is doing that

I missed the part where I wished Avantair to furlough?

I have no doubt of the professionalism of your company and crews. I'm sure your owners are happy. (But I'm sure they'd be happier at NetJets )

 

[wacoflyr]

(But I'm sure they'd be happier at NetJets )

Yes, we would all be happier if we could spend (waste) twice the money that we actually do. Um, well maybe not. Say, this cheaper cabin is actually nicer!

 

[fischman]

Yeah, what imacdog said...

Plus, why would you worry about the guys not getting overtime when there are THOUSANDS of guys not getting anytime right now?

Plus, would the folks bitchin about Avantair COO pay care to post what the COO at NetJets makes? Why is it pilots at other companies are complaining about our company...right before a massive furlough at their company? Do you somehow blame us?

The COO of NetJets isn't involved in this thread.

Avantair has taken some owners from NetJets. So that company isn't completely innocent to the cause of the NetJets furlough. However, it is a drop of water in the ocean compared to what our own management did to us.

 

[Dingo221]

That's named " Competition"

 

[imacdog]

I understand your situation, but the one guy I am thinking about made a commitment to pay for his wife's medical bills that are not covered by insurance. I would say that any one of us would do the same given similar circumstances. It would be a hard pill to swallow knowing that the money you thought was going to pay for the treatment that might keep you wife alive is not going to make it to your bank account.

As for the guys/gals with boats, vacation homes, cars and airplanes......, that is a discussion for another day.

Again, you can't understand why people do what they do until you walk in their shoes.

Sounds like something he was committed to whether he had the money or not. Really doesn't have anything to do with counting on extra money that one has no control over getting. In either case it sucks to lose a percentage of your income, but the overtime money at NJA should never, ever be counted on if one has a choice.

 

[Pervis]

Sounds like something he was committed to whether he had the money or not. Really doesn't have anything to do with counting on extra money that one has no control over getting. In either case it sucks to lose a percentage of your income, but the overtime money at NJA should never, ever be counted on if one has a choice.

Couldn't agree more. But where was this reaction when Olsen and clan pushed IBB because of the 10-15% stipend in OT, holiday pay, etc. They claimed we should consider this in the total income picture. Lots of bobble heads went right along with this. Try telling your creditors that.

 

[jonjuan]

Couldn't agree more. But where was this reaction when Olsen and clan pushed IBB because of the 10-15% stipend in OT, holiday pay, etc. They claimed we should consider this in the total income picture. Lots of bobble heads went right along with this. Try telling your creditors that.

Agree- it's like expecting your investments in the stock market to go up 10-15% per year because that's what you saw for 2-3 years. Now that your annual return is zero on your principal, you consider that a loss? Weird.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, unless it's guaranteed.