So was B19 right or wrong?

[AftCG182]

After joining what the Fractional profession (from the Regional arena), the first things that I noticed were a sense of brotherhood and mutual respect beween the different players. The sniping and constant bickering/b!tching of the 121 world had instantly disappeared. I felt as if the Fractional lifestyle had been custom designed, just for me. (Set aside for a minute the fact that I also felt that I had found the perfect company in Avantair). In the Fractional world, we're experiencing some really tough times right now. Unfounded accusations and sh!t-talking the other players in the industry will only compound the misery.

Avantair is doing pretty well right now. Why not let us keep the Fractional momentum going while the economy and stock market recover. Before you know it, you'll be back to making fun of us for having propellers and no flight attendant.

Mutual respect and level-headedness. Those can be two of the casualties of an economic downturn, along with the resulting rough times for the industry. You can bet that the Avantair pilot group will be respectful and reasonable towards those less fortunate over the next year or two. We're all going to get through this. If we can keep our dignity intact as well... then we will have really come out on top.

Good luck everyone.

 

[NETFLIER]

The point that I always made was that unions are unions, they all act the same.

I'm not union bashing. All I've ever done is told everybody that unions always act the same... the NJ union didn't turn out any different than any other union did it?

The furloughs and layoffs are still going to occur...

The contract will be next.

This will be the exact same union cycle that always happens... I've said it right along, the "industry leading contract" would undergo a correction and would pull back to reality. The contract has been a nightmare to the union members and the company for a year now. Just like all unions are. Different day, same union actions.

Nothing I've said is new, it's all been based on historical actions.

It's just the fractional industry's turn this time to bring it all back to what it should be.

Yes..... I was right, but it wasn't my predictions. It was however, me simply pointing out that unions are all the same.

What were you saying when we signed this industry leading contract and the company followed that up with 2 years of industry leading profit, including $450 million just 2 years ago.

The only thing that "caught" us IS: 1. the worst downturn since the 1920's, and 2. a graceful buy-back clause we have with our owners.

B, anyone can predict layoffs when the finacial industry shuts down almost every economy in the world. But i can also predict in economic good times and bad you will still be a DumbA$$........

 

[steelersrule74]

2) I have no idea who this B19 person is. How do you know who he is, and how do you know that he actually works here?

The vast majority of the Avantair pilot group is here for the long haul. I plan on arguing with you guys when I'm 70 (I'm 42 now) and taking up a seat that some 20 year old feels that he deserves more than me.

regarding your first point. there's a great thread about avantair. you should ask kevin why he so conspicuously avoids those.

as to your second, i truly don't care if avantair has a union or not. if the company needs one, it will have it. just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

If we told you that, It would ruin the surprise now.

regarding your first point. there's a great thread about avantair. you should ask kevin why he so conspicuously avoids those.

as to your second, i truly don't care if avantair has a union or not. if the company needs one, it will have it. just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.

Now there you go, ruining the surprise and the dirty lil' secret.....:bomb:

 

[B19 Flyer]

That sound you hear? It's union history repeating itself, over and over.

What were you saying when we signed this industry leading contract and the company followed that up with 2 years of industry leading profit, including $450 million just 2 years ago.

The only thing that "caught" us IS: 1. the worst downturn since the 1920's, and 2. a graceful buy-back clause we have with our owners.

B, anyone can predict layoffs when the finacial industry shuts down almost every economy in the world. But i can also predict in economic good times and bad you will still be a DumbA$$........

Actually, no.. I'm not a Dumba$$. The only ones that qualify for that statement are those that think the union contract is there to protect them. That's laughable.

This is exactly what happened in 1999/2001 with the industry leading contracts at United, Delta, AMR.

They had profitable years after signing the contract, and when the economy tanked, the unions refused to budge.. two of the three of them went into bankruptcy because the unions created uncontrollable cash burn problems after they shed all the other debt they could, the third one (AMR) was on the brink of bankruptcy when the union conceded.

All the CEOs at the majors were heros when those contracts were signed and NOBODY cared what they were making when the economy was good and there was money for all. When the downturn occurred, they were all failures when the unions refused to respond with the economy downturn.

This is exactly what is happening right now at NJ. The union is going to dig it's heels in, and refuse to act in a timely fashion. This will force the company to react in a way the union won't like, and the normal, expected union rhetoric will happen. Nothing new..

For over three years now I've been saying the the union is all nice when times are good, but they act slowly and will sacrifice the bottom of the seniority list to keep the upper part of the list high paid. It's already happening, and it's only going to get worse.

Meanwhile, those non-union fracs are going to keep chugging along and will be able to react quicker to the uptick when it happens.

Yep, you can have your unions...they are all the same.

 

[NETFLIER]

Actually, no.. I'm not a Dumba$$. The only ones that qualify for that statement are those that think the union contract is there to protect them. That's laughable.

This is exactly what happened in 1999/2001 with the industry leading contracts at United, Delta, AMR.

They had profitable years after signing the contract, and when the economy tanked, the unions refused to budge.. two of the three of them went into bankruptcy because the unions created uncontrollable cash burn problems after they shed all the other debt they could, the third one (AMR) was on the brink of bankruptcy when the union conceded.

All the CEOs at the majors were heros when those contracts were signed and NOBODY cared what they were making when the economy was good and there was money for all. When the downturn occurred, they were all failures when the unions refused to respond with the economy downturn.

This is exactly what is happening right now at NJ. The union is going to dig it's heels in, and refuse to act in a timely fashion. This will force the company to react in a way the union won't like, and the normal, expected union rhetoric will happen. Nothing new..

For over three years now I've been saying the the union is all nice when times are good, but they act slowly and will sacrifice the bottom of the seniority list to keep the upper part of the list high paid. It's already happening, and it's only going to get worse.

Meanwhile, those non-union fracs are going to keep chugging along and will be able to react quicker to the uptick when it happens.

Yep, you can have your unions...they are all the same.[/QU

Thanks again for not addressing the fact of the 450 million profit, shows your motif for being here. Your redirect back to union "no good theme" is weak at best. Your prediction in a down market is no harder that " i think in the winter time its gonna snow someplace."

here are some other you may use to display your self tagged brilliance:
The sun will shine tomorrow
The stock market will go up and down
Water is wet.


Get a life Freak-o....

 

[AftCG182]

regarding your first point. there's a great thread about avantair. you should ask kevin why he so conspicuously avoids those.

as to your second, i truly don't care if avantair has a union or not. if the company needs one, it will have it. just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.

On a lighter note for a moment: your avatar creeps me out every time I see it. That's because I had to spend three days of my vacation this year, travelling to Daytona to settle a bet from the superbowl last year. Forking over the Monopoly Money wasn't the worst part. No, the worst part was having to put on one of those damn Steelers jerseys and buy all the beer at the Oyster Pub and also at the two "pole-dance" bars in Daytona. They make the girls wear bikinis now! I can see more skin at the beach during the day! I've crossed Daytona off my list of places to spend my vacation $$$.

 

[sshrae]

just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.[/QUOTE]

Good point, although being a bengals fan I take exception to that avatar. Tough year for steel town. Payback from that playoff game when they took out Palmer. I'll have to find a good picture of Big Ben getting worked from last week for my avatar.

 

[dime line]

Actually, no.. I'm not a Dumba$$. The only ones that qualify for that statement are those that think the union contract is there to protect them. That's laughable.

This is exactly what happened in 1999/2001 with the industry leading contracts at United, Delta, AMR.
They had profitable years after signing the contract, and when the economy tanked, the unions refused to budge.. two of the three of them went into bankruptcy because the unions created uncontrollable cash burn problems after they shed all the other debt they could, the third one (AMR) was on the brink of bankruptcy when the union conceded.​

Actually you are a dumbaz, but that is a different topic. Looks like it was that nasty UNION contract that paid Tilton more money in 2006 than what the company actually made. Those dann union contracts!​

United Airlines CEO Glenn Tilton received $39.7 million in 2006, including salary, bonus, incentives,​

perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and

awards granted during the year. At the same time, United Flight Attendants continue to experience lifechanging

wage, healthcare and work rule concessions, along with termination of their pension plan.
Incredibly, Tilton’s 2006 compensation exceeded the airline’s entire annual profit of $25 million reported​

by United’s parent company UAL, Inc (UAL).​

 

[steelersrule74]

Good point, although being a bengals fan I take exception to that avatar. Tough year for steel town. Payback from that playoff game when they took out Palmer. I'll have to find a good picture of Big Ben getting worked from last week for my avatar.

knowing the bungles history, i wouldn't cancel any january plans just yet........:beer: