So was B19 right or wrong?

[sshrae]

knowing the bungles history, i wouldn't cancel any january plans just yet........:beer:

Yeah I know. We tend to choke, it might almost be better if they just blow it now rather than give us false hope.
ss

 

[corpflunkie]

regarding your first point. there's a great thread about avantair. you should ask kevin why he so conspicuously avoids those.

as to your second, i truly don't care if avantair has a union or not. if the company needs one, it will have it. just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.

Wow!! a potential outing. I will make it a point to ask next time I am in HQ. If you are right, I am WAY off on who I suspected B19 was

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks again for not addressing the fact of the 450 million profit, shows your motif for being here. Your redirect back to union "no good theme" is weak at best. Your prediction in a down market is no harder that " i think in the winter time its gonna snow someplace."

here are some other you may use to display your self tagged brilliance:
The sun will shine tomorrow
The stock market will go up and down
Water is wet.


Get a life Freak-o....

Who cares about the profits? Don't you think that there should have been some of the profits put aside for the downturn in the economy that always happens? Profits aren't there for just the moment, they are there to sustain the company through good times and bad. Unions only negotiate for the good times and never react properly when the bad times occur. Like now.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Where are NJW words of wisdom when we need them?

regarding your first point. there's a great thread about avantair. you should ask kevin why he so conspicuously avoids those.

as to your second, i truly don't care if avantair has a union or not. if the company needs one, it will have it. just don't rely on your company's good will for the next 28 years and then when you're 58, easily replaced by cheaper labor and have no CBA protections act surprised that it didn't work out.

I don't avoid the avantair threads, the citation share (air) threads or any of the others. I just post where I feel like it. Another conspiracy theory.

Threads with NJ (and FLOPS) on the other hand are classic examples of what happens when unions invade a company.

All you guys in the non-union fracs need to pay close attention to how NJASAP and 1108 are handling this ongoing chaos right now. (quite poorly ) 1108 was greedy and there is utter chaos and malcontent while these companies are dealing with these unions.

The industry leading contract isn't going to be "industry leading" when it gets cut down to size. All the promises made by 1108 are going to be broken, and when it's over the underbelly of the beast will be exposed, and those non-union fracs are going to keep chugging along.

For a short time those NJ guys got their high pay. But when it's all over, those non-union guys will all agree that keeping a union off the property had been the best thing that ever happened to them.

Where are NJW words of wisdom when we need them?

 

[steelersrule74]

LMAO.....you set the record for how many times a person can be wrong in one post. but shoot, i'm a trusting guy. BTW, I'm thinking of buying some stock in Avantair. Sounds like it's a great company. All knowing B19 can you give me some advice? You proclaim much knowledge about unions and their cost. since avantair doesn't have one, you think I should buy? Is the stock undervalued or overvalued? if I already have some, do you think I should hold on to it?

no worries, it's just an opinion. the SEC doesn't read these boards, not that that would apply to you........

 

[brokeflyer]

Who cares about the profits? Don't you think that there should have been some of the profits put aside for the downturn in the economy that always happens? Profits aren't there for just the moment, they are there to sustain the company through good times and bad. Unions only negotiate for the good times and never react properly when the bad times occur. Like now.

thats the question I want answered. What did the company do with all the profits, while no airplanes were being delivered? I'm glad to see you coming around and seeing how bad the working man is getting fcked by the company. Guess you aint all bad after all.

corporate CEO/management greed has become so bad its amazing this country hasnt collapsed already. Im no fan of a union but management is where all the money is hidden. Sorry but thats just the way it is.

NJ...AT THIS MOMENT can afford a CBA that has ALL THE NUMBERS doubled.

remember, there are no bad employees, only bad managers.

 

[fischman]

I don't avoid the avantair threads, the citation share (air) threads or any of the others. I just post where I feel like it. Another conspiracy theory.

Threads with NJ (and FLOPS) on the other hand are classic examples of what happens when unions invade a company.

All you guys in the non-union fracs need to pay close attention to how NJASAP and 1108 are handling this ongoing chaos right now. (quite poorly ) 1108 was greedy and there is utter chaos and malcontent while these companies are dealing with these unions.

Yes. Let's talk about how NetJets wanted to try to save job and how NJASAP kept them from doing just that.

B19, PLEASE don't let facts get in the way. Nevermind how NJASAP came to NetJets MONTHS before the $h!t hit the fan telling them about our upcoming financial troubles. Nevermind the fact that NJASAP has been collecting waste reports from our members to try to help the company eliminate it (which has fallen on deaf ears for YEARS). Nevermind the fact that NJASAP went to the company with Voluntary Measures designed to help save hundreds of jobs (which the company eventually no longer believed in and canceled). Again, I'd HATE for you to have to come out of your bubble and see the REAL WORLD. What else can NJASAP do to convince you that we are not here to destroy the company? How have we created chaos? We have FIXED chaos due to poor management.

Speaking of REAL WORLD, Avantair is seeing some nice growth as people are looking for a cheaper way to enjoy fractional ownership. What are you planning for Avantair when the fractional market swings the way away from turboprops and wants the size and speed a jet can afford? When the pilots become upset because you are going to have to lay them off are you going to help save their jobs? Are you going to quit if a union ever comes on property? Or will you threaten all who desire representation and a contract (which I'm sure you enjoy having). Why is management allowed to have contracts and pilots aren't?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Facts? Yeah, let's look at them...

Yes. Let's talk about how NetJets wanted to try to save job and how NJASAP kept them from doing just that.

B19, PLEASE don't let facts get in the way. Nevermind how NJASAP came to NetJets MONTHS before the $h!t hit the fan telling them about our upcoming financial troubles. Nevermind the fact that NJASAP has been collecting waste reports from our members to try to help the company eliminate it (which has fallen on deaf ears for YEARS). Nevermind the fact that NJASAP went to the company with Voluntary Measures designed to help save hundreds of jobs (which the company eventually no longer believed in and canceled). Again, I'd HATE for you to have to come out of your bubble and see the REAL WORLD. What else can NJASAP do to convince you that we are not here to destroy the company? How have we created chaos? We have FIXED chaos due to poor management.

Speaking of REAL WORLD, Avantair is seeing some nice growth as people are looking for a cheaper way to enjoy fractional ownership. What are you planning for Avantair when the fractional market swings the way away from turboprops and wants the size and speed a jet can afford? When the pilots become upset because you are going to have to lay them off are you going to help save their jobs? Are you going to quit if a union ever comes on property? Or will you threaten all who desire representation and a contract (which I'm sure you enjoy having). Why is management allowed to have contracts and pilots aren't?

Let's get the facts straight. Look at the turmoil NJ pilots are going through and have been through. Look at the turmoil FLOPS pilots are going through.

You can talk about all the stuff you want.. you and your union brethren have created a lot more hell for your companies than all the others put together.

Oh, and I've said this before.. contracts for management are offered to attract and maintain quality employees.

For that one reason alone, no union will ever be offered a contract. The union will ALWAYS need to resort to the greedy methods of forcing a contract on a company using bully tactics to get what they want because everybody that has ever been involved with a union knows that it's all about the greed and never about the good of the company.

All the crap you mentioned above? It's all trying to fix what the union screwed up. Nothing more... there is no honor in the unions actions above. They are just trying to bail themselves out of something the company shouldn't have been into in the first place.

 

[Fozzy]

And there it is

Oh, and I've said this before.. contracts for management are offered to attract and maintain quality employees.

And that folks is what management tools think of the pilots, you know the ones that actually do the real work.
If we all did our jobs as good as B19 and his ilk we all would be on the bread line.
Long walk, short pier.

 

[steelersrule74]

Oh, and I've said this before.. contracts for management are offered to attract and maintain quality employees.

and the starting wage at avantair is just barely above unemployment. I'm sure for the guys that actually fly the machine, recruiting quality crew members is fairly important. It's sad and tragic you think quality is something that only needs to apply to management.