So much for strike leverage at DAL

[Capt. X]

1113(c)

I agree with that. I don't think a strike can be stopped by the courts.

It's the simple fact that a strike would almost certainly liquidate the company. Grinstein knows that DALPA doesn't have the nads to do it. DALPA will fall and in a 1113, she'll give the company what they demand, and the pilots will shuffle off to work.

No airline has succumbed to the 1113c yet, United, ATA, HAL and Aloha.
Lets hope Delta won't be the first or many more airlines will try it.

 

[SWA/FO]

I'd bid the 737 and get a type on DAL's dime, if your able.

 

[AA717driver]

Delta's pay and workrules will be in line with UAL, USAir and what NWA will get. There's no way the company will not get a competitive contract. There's no way DAPLA will force the court to impose a contract.

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth is pointless.TC

P.S.--Capt. X, great avatar. Hope it lasts!

 

[CFIT]

I certainly don't think of ALPA, or DALPA doing more the a well thought song and dance.

Good luck, though....

 

[75M]

Woerthless is in the bunker on his knees praying with Mugerdouchian...TC

You said douche.

 

[General Lee]

Delta's pay and workrules will be in line with UAL, USAir and what NWA will get. There's no way the company will not get a competitive contract. There's no way DAPLA will force the court to impose a contract.

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth is pointless.TC

P.S.--Capt. X, great avatar. Hope it lasts!

While I agree with you that things will get worse on the pay side here, I have a quote from the judge the other day that asks about how the company came up with the proposed pay rates:

"You threw a stick up in the air and it came down and landed on 175."


So, as you can see, she is miffed at this process too. I see a pay cut coming, no doubt, and some other hardships. That is the way it goes. But, only the judge knows if she will allow it or not, and otherwise it is left up to negotiation. That needs to happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ding ding ding...winner! If the pilot's work for nothing, will the airline be profitable?

We can only hope that we get new managment blood (rumor has it that our new COO will get Gerry's job eventually, and he seems pretty sharp) and they actually come up with a plan. The CFO stated that with savings we will do a lot better in 2007 (can you do any worse?). I also printed an article with a story about a gathering of DL/NW/AF/KLM someday. Maybe that will be the plan. Also, if we get $3 billion a year in savings, and then drop the pensions, we could be in a lot better shape. Who knows?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[scoreboard]

We can only hope that we get new managment blood (rumor has it that our new COO will get Gerry's job eventually, and he seems pretty sharp) and they actually come up with a plan. The CFO stated that with savings we will do a lot better in 2007 (can you do any worse?). I also printed an article with a story about a gathering of DL/NW/AF/KLM someday. Maybe that will be the plan. Also, if we get $3 billion a year in savings, and then drop the pensions, we could be in a lot better shape. Who knows?


Bye Bye--General Lee

General et al, How about this, you guys need to get your own management team, get a plan, get some funding, walk into court with the plan and say this is what our guys can do, cause we are not going to work for the guys that are here. My humble 2cts.

 

[Publishers]

What has been said here is really what had been said by airline anaylist for some years. Basically when American became king, Delta was, even when profitable, a carrier with a very narrow route structure, little international routes to the right areas (NWA to Asia would be considered the right area), and limited value other than the workforce was considered to be above average. They were also considered more vulnerable to some extent as the LCC carriers would do well in there city pairs as opposed to New York etc where it is hard to turn the flights quickly, a problem that US or whatever they call it today had.

Selling it off may well be an alternative.

 

[Crash Pad]

Here is the big difference between Delta and USair/United. United and USAir saw 9/11 and said whoa sh!t this could be bad for buisness... They quickly dove into BK and started to fix the problem... three years ago. American and CAL were well ahead of them.
Delta meanwhile started a bonfire with cash. Everyone sat around roasting hot dogs and having a good time... (Everyone includes management, rampers, pilots, etc.) Finally the fire started to die down and someone came back from the money pile and said "hey the money pile is empty."
"Impossible we are Delta airlines we have been stacking that money pile for years you must have missed some."
"Nope we checked everywhere even took some from the pilots"
Then after all the money was gone... and I mean all the money they decide to go into BK. Delta will be the airline that gets liquidated. I hope the pilots strike to put this one to bed. I'll be on the street but at least someone will have forced me out of this dumb a$$ career.

 

[densoo]

They quickly dove into BK and started to fix the problem... three years ago. American and CAL were well ahead of them.

"well ahead"--I'll say. CAL busted the pilot unions and declared BK twice more than a decade ago and has had wages and benefits down at the bottom of the pile ever since. A ten year head start on a competetive advantage and plenty of time to "make it work." What is surprising is that they haven't done better considering the cost advantage they've had all these years. And they need $80M from the FAs?

 

[ms6073]

What most of us fail to see that in a population of 295,000,000 people only 639,000 of us are licensed pilots and that is including recreational to ATP. We have this country by the balls if we just walk off the job on any given day.

I am curious, did not have time to search with google but say this comes to a head in Bankruptcy court resulting in the union placing the pilots in the position to strike, what is to prevent management from lobbying the White House? I seem to recall that in past labor disputes with national impact, at one point not too long ago the President at the time interceded to prevent a strike by injecting a cooling off period or am I way off base?

 

[ultrarunner]

I seem to recall that in past labor disputes with national impact, at one point not too long ago the President at the time interceded to prevent a strike by injecting a cooling off period or am I way off base?

Close, but not quite. What you're referring to is a Presidental Emergency Board (PEB). An employee group operating under a CBA that falls under the guidelines of the RLA may seek 'self help' (strike) at the end of the cooling off period when a mediator declares an impass in negotiations on a contract that became ammendable.

That is not what is going on here.

IMO, this would not apply if the 1113c hearing is sucessful for Delta. Delta management wishes to toss out the CBA, effectively ending Delta pilot represention. In essence, if the labor contract is cancelled, the pilots really would not be striking, they would simply be walking off the job, and the PEB would be able to prevent that.

No one group can have it both ways.

 

[General Lee]

Close, but not quite. What you're referring to is a Presidental Emergency Board (PEB). An employee group operating under a CBA that falls under the guidelines of the RLA may seek 'self help' (strike) at the end of the cooling off period when a mediator declares an impass in negotiations on a contract that became ammendable.

That is not what is going on here.

IMO, this would not apply if the 1113c hearing is sucessful for Delta. Delta management wishes to toss out the CBA, effectively ending Delta pilot represention. In essence, if the labor contract is cancelled, the pilots really would not be striking, they would simply be walking off the job, and the PEB would be able to prevent that.

No one group can have it both ways.

So, can you explain this part of the transcript:


ALPA attorney asked CFO Bastian if DL had a contingency plan for a
possible pilot strike. CFO replied, "we have a legal opinion that a
strike would not be allowed under the RLA". Judge interrupted to ask,
"What does the RLA have to do with this". CFO repeats his statement.
Judge says, " I don't believe the Federal courts have the power to
enjoin a strike. I know I certainly don't."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Draginass]

The management shysters will tell everyone that the RLA is still in affect after an 1113, but that's just the standard corporate lawyer lies.

It's all BS anyway. If the pilots walk, the company shutsdown. The key point to remember is that the pilots WON'T walk. They don't have the nuts to. They're going to take what management gives 'em, just like U and UAL. Watch NW. That's the real show. NW wants to break their unions, but good. They want to humiliate them and drive 'em into the ground, like they did with the mechanics.

 

[ultrarunner]

Opps..typo on my part...

I meant to say:

"....and the PEB would NOT be able to prevent that...."

And the judge seems to be of that opinion as well as shown in her comments posted by General above.

 

[michael707767]

King said that he expected Delta pilots -- who are fighting the airline's bid to void their contract in bankruptcy court -- to vote against a strike if the judge hearing the case rules against them.

Have to disagree there. Smart or not, I bet this pilot group votes to strike is a contract is imposed.

 

[ultrarunner]

I would agree. IMO, if management gets what it wants, I don't believe the government will inteject and prevent a "strike". Delta management metality has shown they look out for themselves, and place the shareholders and everyone else after. So IF the pilots walk and shut down the airline, I don't really think Delta will give a crapola.

 

[General Lee]

I would agree. IMO, if management gets what it wants, I don't believe the government will inteject and prevent a "strike". Delta management metality has shown they look out for themselves, and place the shareholders and everyone else after. So IF the pilots walk and shut down the airline, I don't really think Delta will give a crapola.

Who does care? How about the creditors, the State of Georgia, the City of Atlanta, the 25 million Skymiles members through American Express, and probably some other people? So, I would think that management is getting an earfull from some of these.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GeneralAv]

where can one find the transcripts?