SLI. What's fair and equitable.

[doh]

Hey Texas. It's not about me and my seniority. Go back and read. I COULD CARE LESS WHERE I AM ON THE LIST. I was willing to accept anything I got. It's the special kids I have a problem with and the continued favoritism I actually thought with this new leadership it would stop. My fault for expecting any kind of fairness for all.

Stop being an idiot. Call one of the SLI committee and ask. You are making yourself look more stupid by the minute.

 

[rajflyboy]

Fair and equitable?

Is that for the average pilot or just for the union/management butt kissing pilots?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Fair and equitable?

Is that for the average pilot or just for the union/management butt kissing pilots?

The transfers continue to lose longevity every month they stay at flex and don't recind their ploa. Uncle has them convinced the jcba will take years, the union says less than 1 year. Either way, these guys are kinda screwed (or at least Ricci is). I have a feeling when it all shakes down, all of us complaining are going to be pleasantly surprised how this benefits all of us regular folks.

Think of the deliciousness of this piece. If the global transfers choose to stay where they are they will be the ones on the chopping block when uncle threatens to furlough (and he will come closer to negotiatiating times). Will Kenn Ricci abandon his precious FoK group in the deal to screwing the union?

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

^ There it is. Dem transfers be havin' some worries. My 'o my, where will they go?

 

[luckydog]

Why all this discussion over the fate of 80 guys. There are over 600 on the list. Focus on the big picture.

What the big picture showed me is, every pilot above me on the list was hired at their respective company before me, and virtually every pilot below me was hired at their respective company after me.

You can call it "longevity" or anything else you want, but for about HALF the FJ pilots, this was a date-of-hire screwing. I'm sure there are 16 yes votes in the bottom half of the FJ list that are regretting their choice.

The SLI committee members should be ashamed of it instead of defending it as a proud accomplishment.

 

[Praetorian]

What the big picture showed me is, every pilot above me on the list was hired at their respective company before me, and virtually every pilot below me was hired at their respective company after me.

Isn't this ^^ the definition of "fair and eqitable". How would you have done it?

 

[luckydog]

Isn't this ^^ the definition of "fair and eqitable". How would you have done it?

If you think DoH is fair, then it is.

I would have gone by percentage so that the growth bumps of both companies shared the burden equally. Instead of putting 50% of the FJ at the bottom of the list.

I'm told I should be happy it wasn't date-of-hire, now you're saying it's fair. I really wish every one of you would have been saying this during the union drive. Then we would have know the score before we got to this point.

I'll put it another way:

This list puts me about 80 people away from being STAPLED to the end of list. And, most of the Options guys I'm senior to haven't been on the property for years.

Too bad there isn't a law that prevents this kind of abuse.

 

[doh]

Lucky, have you run any of the numbers? You should call the committee members.

 

[doh]

Starting at seniority 500 and below, every Flexjet pilot gains in relative placement. Everyone. So luckydog, if you are 80 out from the bottom, you gain in relative placement. What is your complaint again? And everyone above you has more total time on property than you. There is not one single guy with less time on property than you.

 

[luckydog]

Starting at seniority 500 and below, every Flexjet pilot gains in relative placement. Everyone. So luckydog, if you are 80 out from the bottom, you gain in relative placement. What is your complaint again? And everyone above you has more total time on property than you. There is not one single guy with less time on property than you.

I don't disagree with your conclusion about time on property. I disagree that it's a fair and equitable method of integration.

Pay attention, I'm not 80 from the bottom, there are about 80 Options guys below me + all the FJ that were already junior to me. Meaning I'm 80 guys from being stapled.

I did not gain a thing, I lost, pretty big actually. They used some clever Ricci math and managed to take our junior PICs and make them fo's for life. Explain how great the list is when 2004 Challenger PICs can't hold a PIC in any airplane.

 

[dime line]

Explain how great the list is when 2004 Challenger PICs can't hold a PIC in any airplane

Correct me, Didnt Ricci upgrade 100 or so FOs to Capt at FLEX in order to skew the vote? Upgrades that should have not happened

 

[doh]

I don't disagree with your conclusion about time on property. I disagree that it's a fair and equitable method of integration.

Pay attention, I'm not 80 from the bottom, there are about 80 Options guys below me + all the FJ that were already junior to me. Meaning I'm 80 guys from being stapled.

I did not gain a thing, I lost, pretty big actually. They used some clever Ricci math and managed to take our junior PICs and make them fo's for life. Explain how great the list is when 2004 Challenger PICs can't hold a PIC in any airplane.

I think I know who this is now. First of all, there are about 90 Options guys below you if all Options pilots return from PLOA. Then there are about 150 Flexjet pilots below you. I suppose there is a very slim chance you might lose your CL30 captaincy, but there is zero chance you will ever be an SIC again. You've latched onto your method based on pure selfishness. The Options pilot who would be directly below you, based on your preferred method, was hired four years before you and never furloughed. So your method would screw him into the ground...but hey, it's all about you! isn't it? Never mind that the Options SLI committee would never have agreed to such an unfair proposal. Never mind that we would have gone to arbitration, which is far riskier than you imagine. Never mind any of that, it's all about "special" you! This list is absolutely fair and equitable on every level.

 

[doh]

Correct me, Didnt Ricci upgrade 100 or so FOs to Capt at FLEX in order to skew the vote? Upgrades that should have not happened

How dare you?!? My upgrade (picture me at my steely eyed, captainly, square jawed best here please) was inevitable for a man of my obvious superiority! It couldn't have had a thing to do with trying to buy my vote!
Or
Of course he upgraded pilots more than 80% down our seniority list to try and buy NO votes. His election interference almost worked.
It's one of those two. You believe what you want, and I'll keep my delusion!:laugh:

 

[luckydog]

I think I know who this is now. First of all, there are about 90 Options guys below you if all Options pilots return from PLOA. Then there are about 150 Flexjet pilots below you. I suppose there is a very slim chance you might lose your CL30 captaincy, but there is zero chance you will ever be an SIC again. You've latched onto your method based on pure selfishness. The Options pilot who would be directly below you, based on your preferred method, was hired four years before you and never furloughed. So your method would screw him into the ground...but hey, it's all about you! isn't it? Never mind that the Options SLI committee would never have agreed to such an unfair proposal. Never mind that we would have gone to arbitration, which is far riskier than you imagine. Never mind any of that, it's all about "special" you! This list is absolutely fair and equitable on every level.

Thanks for the lesson in selfishness, but it's not all about me. It was about delivering on the promise.

If it was all about me, I'd be pissed that it wasn't a staple job with them at the bottom.

As it is, it's over and done. Same as the election, choices were made and we'll all live with them.

 

[el raton]

........

 

[japhy]

Why all this discussion over the fate of 80 guys. There are over 600 on the list. Focus on the big picture.

What the big picture showed me is, every pilot above me on the list was hired at their respective company before me, and virtually every pilot below me was hired at their respective company after me.

You can call it "longevity" or anything else you want, but for about HALF the FJ pilots, this was a date-of-hire screwing. I'm sure there are 16 yes votes in the bottom half of the FJ list that are regretting their choice.

The SLI committee members should be ashamed of it instead of defending it as a proud accomplishment.

^^^^
What he said. For the majority of the Flexjet pilots the SLI was a $hit sandwich.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Let?s look at some facts:

Flexjet:

177 positive, 60% of pilots
122 negative, 40% of pilots
Secured the top 33 spots of the list
22 pilots, 112-133, lost less than 5%. Not much.
60 pilots, 134-193, who took the brunt of the loss. Unavoidable due to the massive hiring bubble of Options to Flexjet between 2000-2003 of 225-47 pilots.
Then another 27 pilots at less than 5%
#228 lost 0.16%
12 pilots, 283-294, loss of 0.03-1.51% Basically nothing.

Options:
First 137 pilots in the negative
Later on, another 77 in the negative
Total of 214
58% negative for the group
42% positive
Bottom 25% of the combined list, 170ish pilots, 100 are FLOPs pilots.
Flexjet pilots went on top of all the "DOH Pods" from top to bottom.

Depending on how many transfers stay at Flexjet, Flexjet pilots? numbers only get better. Someone tell me how this is a bad deal for the collective group? Also, it?s worth noting that this whole mess belongs to management. None of us asked for it. The transfers were brought over here on a 12 month LOA with the assumption by management that at the end of those 12 months they might opt to go back, which would incur training costs. The SLI committee did nothing to change this. The transfers still have the choice to either stay or go. If they choose to go back, then that training cost is on the Company still, not the Committee. AND, they legitimately get to keep their Options seniority number. If they stay beyond JCBA, then it?s their Flexjet number. It?s really very simple. Flexjet pilots? real complaint should be that their boss made known where his real priorities fall with the post about how the Committee intentionally targeted the transfers. It?s management that put them in this peculiar position, not anyone else. (The editing done after I originally posted this was a format issue.)

 

[doh]

V1, it's nice of you to acknowledge the 5% or less groups. But 5% and less is statistically insignificant. Since Options would have driven this to arbitration over the issue and we would have been in front of arbitrator Liebowitz (spelling?). You unhappy folks should google her. Do you really want to argue this in front of her? I don't think so. The 30 or so pilots in the negative 10-14% are better off than being stapled to the bottom of 100% "Tenure based list", and the 5% and less pilots are much better off.

 

[el raton]

It is what it is. Time to move on.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Anyone who believes the seniority list that was released this week is the "final word" is seriously delusional.