sli at rah

[godsgift2aviatn]

At this point the damage is irreparable anyway. You guys put an ENTIRE airline out of work with your pathetic contract. I am sure these guys are going to come back with smiles on their faces. They'll probably share cookies with you in the cockpit.

As you must well be aware, Midwest was circling the drain long before the Republic pilots came along and showed the Midwest pilots the door. Cause we all know that's how it works. As far as our contract I'm also sure you are aware it has been up for renewal for over two years now and will hopefully be settled by the second quarter of 2010. And it was far from pathetic for a 50 seat operator, which is what we were at the time. Let's see what the arbitrator says in March.

 

[likeitis]

As you must well be aware, Midwest was circling the drain long before the Republic pilots came along and showed the Midwest pilots the door. Cause we all know that's how it works. As far as our contract I'm also sure you are aware it has been up for renewal for over two years now and will hopefully be settled by the second quarter of 2010. And it was far from pathetic for a 50 seat operator, which is what we were at the time. Let's see what the arbitrator says in March.

Thanks for the morning humor. You'll be lucky to have a contract by spring 20011 much less spring 2010. I should take that back, you may have a contract by 2010 because you guys have a history of bending over for your management.

50 seat rates are one thing but you allowed all the rest because you signed off on those pathetic rates. You easily could have had agreed to negotiate rates for all new equipment as they came. Did you think your company requested rates on aircraft you didn't have at the time for fun?

It's pathetic that you guys keep complaining about your contract being 2 years past it's amendable date. The AirTran contract is 4 years past and their contract is at least in the ballpark of current rates. Yours is a joke. But you guys keep bragging about have a no JA clause, something that is of no real value. This coming from pilots with no cancelation pay or trip rigs. Apparently airlines didn't cancel flights back in 2003 and made trips that were always efficient.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Do the Republic pilots realize that the Midwest pilots were offered to fly the E170's for Republic wages? The Midwest union said in a nutshell hell no and refused to change their current contract. This makes it all that much harder to swallow for those guys. Like I said before, the damage is already irreparable. This is going to turn out no better than the US Airways integration. You are going to have 1200 Midwest and Frontier pilots against 2200 Republic pilots.

 

[king10pin02]

Do the Republic pilots realize that the Midwest pilots were offered to fly the E170's for Republic wages? The Midwest union said in a nutshell hell no and refused to change their current contract. This makes it all that much harder to swallow for those guys. Like I said before, the damage is already irreparable. This is going to turn out no better than the US Airways integration. You are going to have 1200 Midwest and Frontier pilots against 2200 Republic pilots.

they were offered a chance that was never going to happen due to RAH scope clause. the only way they were going to fly the 170s was if they bought them. Management lied to the midwest guys just like the Frontier pilots were originally told they would remain seperate from the rest of RAH, also against the RAH scope clause.

 

[hockeypilot44]

they were offered a chance that was never going to happen due to RAH scope clause. the only way they were going to fly the 170s was if they bought them. Management lied to the midwest guys just like the Frontier pilots were originally told they would remain seperate from the rest of RAH, also against the RAH scope clause.

Lol. Your scope clause can be circumnavigated just as easily as the mainline's. You will find that out someday when you guys are not the cheapest operator in the world.

 

[Mike man]

...RAH scope clause...

hockeypilot44 is right...I did laugh when I read that. The contracts at airlines are worthless, the only airline contracts that are good are the contracts the CEO's have for their cars, drivers, compensation, country club memberships, etc.

Bryan Bedford will circumnavigate that scop clause faster than a prom date looses her dress...so good luck with that one.

 

[Minimaniac]

Lol. Your scope clause can be circumnavigated just as easily as the mainline's. You will find that out someday when you guys are not the cheapest operator in the world.

Really? Because that scope clause is what is keeping Midwest pilots from being recalled ahead of an actual seniority list integration.

And as for RAH pilots putting Midwest pilots on the street...just look at Frontier. Those pilots have not been displaced or furloughed at the hand of RAH pilots. Is it that we like the F9 pilots better? Is it because they are so much closer to RAH pilots in pay than to Midwest pilots? Is it because RAH pilots want to fly the Airbus, but not a 717?

No. The difference is that Frontier was, is, and will continue to be a viable airline. Midwest was a great airline, and had a tremendous product, but that product was no longer producing. Frontier pilots are receiving the same treatment that Midwest pilots are. Each is stuck in their situation until the SLI is complete. Midwest pilots can't be recalled to RAH and Frontier pilots can't be recalled either. If saving labor cost was BB's ultimate goal, why haven't Frontier pilots been furloughed, and Airbuses sold or returned?

Midwest Airlines could not sustain itself. Customers loved it, pilots took pride in a job well done, and everyone earned their place in the colorful history of our industry. But midwest took a wrong turn at the hands of management. They wound up with a single fleet type that proved trapping. The plane could not fly long range, it was no longer produced, there were few aftermarket airframes available, and the plane itself limited the amount of revenue that could be generated. Choosing the 717 was not necessarily anyone's fault, but it ended up putting too many limitations on a business that needed to rapidly adapt to an economy and industry in turmoil. The 717 smothered Midwest. Airtran reluctantly had to find a different airframe to meet its expansion needs. MIdwest either didn't or couldn't.

If labor cost was the only problem with Midwest, why didn't Bedford try to keep the 717 and have RAH pilots fly it? 25 secured airframes is a lot easier to begin business with than sourcing E190's one by one from various owners and operators.

Midwest was broken. No one blames the pilots. You did everything you ought to have done to keep Midwest great. But that doesn't change the fact that the business model could not be fixed.

Midwest pilots are on the street because their business was coming apart, and because RAH pilots have a solid scope clause that prevents Midwest pilots from flying an RAH aircraft before integration. If the Midwest business was functional like Frontier, the Midwest pilots would still be flying 717's until the seniority integration, and most likely after, as well.

Everyone overlooks the fact that no F9 guys have been put on the street by RAH pilots. Just stop and think why, and then consider what makes F9 different from YX. RAH is a common denominator, but a common denominator that yields two wildly opposite outcomes can be considered irrelevant to the outcomes. RAH has treated both pilot groups with the same legal viewpoint. It stands to reason that the difference in status between Midwest pilots and Frontier pilots has to do with Frontier and Midwest themselves, not RAH.

There is no need for F9 pilots to "watch out", because no one is gunning for their jobs, just like no one is or was gunning for Midwest jobs. I don't blame Midwest guys for being upset. They are proud of their airline, and each of us has our judgment clouded by pride.

 

[Axel]

Lighten up, Hockeypilot

(It's a link)

 

[starchkr]

No more of those GOD AWEFUL COOKIES!!!!!!! Now i understand why everyone from the midwest is "weight challenged." :laugh:

Oh man...anyway...I still say no more of those cookies though...they are really bad!

Oops, what was this thread about again? Oh, SLI yeah, whatever, we'll see.

 

[CitationLover]

As you must well be aware, Midwest was circling the drain long before the Republic pilots came along and showed the Midwest pilots the door. Cause we all know that's how it works. As far as our contract I'm also sure you are aware it has been up for renewal for over two years now and will hopefully be settled by the second quarter of 2010. And it was far from pathetic for a 50 seat operator, which is what we were at the time. Let's see what the arbitrator says in March.

It's amazing what happens when a private company doesn't need to provide financial details and can shift money very easily. Now why would TPG set up all those companies for little ole' Midwest?!?! Why did TH ask us to match RAH rates a full year and a half before Republic bought us and 6 mos before they even appeared on property?

This has been in the works for sometime.