SkyWest Union Question

[Goose Egg]

Ok, since these SKW union threads are all the rage right now, I have a question that came up through my own research that's been bugging me. Maybe some of you guys that know more about this than I do can help me out.

So suppose the vote passes and ALPA comes on the property, and negotiations begin for the initial contract. From what I've read, it can take some time, maybe even a year or more to hammer out the first contract. So now, here's my question.

The information from management that I've read says that "usually pay scales are frozen, including the normal annual increases." So if I understand that right, I'm basically stuck at $19.25/hr without benefits until the contract is agreed upon, which could take 1-3 years. I mean, I hope to GOSH that I'm wrong about this, but this is what it looks like to me. Please help me out here. I think this is the deal-breaking issue for me. Am I reading this right? Or am I just freaking out over nothing?

Thanks in advance,
-Goose

 

[BoilerUP]

Ok, since these SKW union threads are all the rage right now, I have a question that came up through my own research that's been bugging me. Maybe some of you guys that know more about this than I do can help me out.

So suppose the vote passes and ALPA comes on the property, and negotiations begin for the initial contract. From what I've read, it can take some time, maybe even a year or more to hammer out the first contract. So now, here's my question.

The information from management that I've read says that "usually pay scales are frozen, including the normal annual increases." So if I understand that right, I'm basically stuck at $19.25/hr without benefits until the contract is agreed upon, which could take 1-3 years. I mean, I hope to GOSH that I'm wrong about this, but this is what it looks like to me. Please help me out here. I think this is the deal-breaking issue for me. Am I reading this right? Or am I just freaking out over nothing?

Thanks in advance,
-Goose

You will get your longevity raises.

 

[ranger17]

I've asked that question to alot of OC members and they say that is false. I've been told what happens is that the day a union is voted in the current contract is frozen. Which means they cannot take anything away that is in the policy manual but they cannot take away our annual pay increase. This is what I have been told and take it for what it is.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Ok, since these SKW union threads are all the rage right now, I have a question that came up through my own research that's been bugging me. Maybe some of you guys that know more about this than I do can help me out.

So suppose the vote passes and ALPA comes on the property, and negotiations begin for the initial contract. From what I've read, it can take some time, maybe even a year or more to hammer out the first contract. So now, here's my question.

The information from management that I've read says that "usually pay scales are frozen, including the normal annual increases." So if I understand that right, I'm basically stuck at $19.25/hr without benefits until the contract is agreed upon, which could take 1-3 years. I mean, I hope to GOSH that I'm wrong about this, but this is what it looks like to me. Please help me out here. I think this is the deal-breaking issue for me. Am I reading this right? Or am I just freaking out over nothing?

Thanks in advance,
-Goose

Like Boiler said, you still get your longevity. Furthermore, I don't think everything is necessarly "frozen." They just have to go through the union to make changes. I believe there can be Letters of Agreement and such in the short term until a contract is completed.

 

[outtahere]

If your agreement with skywest includes cola bumps over the life of your agreement, like 1-2% per year, those may be frozen, but I am not sure. Mgmt is required to maintain status quo if the union drive is successful. They can't wipe out all that you have and make you earn it back. You will go to second and third year pay on your anniversery.

 

[ASAFOE120]

The way I understand it is that everything continues just like nothing happened until the new contract is signed. So if you are a new hire w/out insurance but it is supposed to kick in after 6 months, then it should still kick in.
If you are a new hire making $19.25/hr and at your 1 year date it is supposed to go to $23.00/hr, the raise should still kick in at your anniversary date.
If I'm not mistaken, it is illegal for a company to penalize employees during this process.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok, since these SKW union threads are all the rage right now, I have a question that came up through my own research that's been bugging me. Maybe some of you guys that know more about this than I do can help me out.

So suppose the vote passes and ALPA comes on the property, and negotiations begin for the initial contract. From what I've read, it can take some time, maybe even a year or more to hammer out the first contract. So now, here's my question.

The information from management that I've read says that "usually pay scales are frozen, including the normal annual increases." So if I understand that right, I'm basically stuck at $19.25/hr without benefits until the contract is agreed upon, which could take 1-3 years. I mean, I hope to GOSH that I'm wrong about this, but this is what it looks like to me. Please help me out here. I think this is the deal-breaking issue for me. Am I reading this right? Or am I just freaking out over nothing?

Thanks in advance,
-Goose

The "information" that management has given you is incorrect, and it would be illegal for them to stop giving you your longevity bonuses if ALPA was elected to represent you. The current policy manual, including pay rates and longevity bonuses and all of your work rules, will remain in effect until a new contract is ratified. The only way management is allowed to modify your current pay and work rules is if they can prove to a judge that their business has fundamentally changed and that they need to make changes in order to survive.

If the ALPA vote is successful, then you will continue to receive your yearly raise just as you would without ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

If your agreement with skywest includes cola bumps over the life of your agreement, like 1-2% per year, those may be frozen

Nope, they can't even freeze those. I don't think that Skywest pilots currently have COLA raises, but hypothetically, if they did, then management would be required to continue them as if the vote never took place. Management is not allowed to change the terms of employment as a result of the union drive.

 

[Bluto]

No COLA raises for SkyWest pilots. Our management has tried to convince us that our annual increase makes up for no COLA, they have even gone so far as suggesting that quick upgrades are more profitable for us than COLA. I'm just grateful they decide to pay me more for doing the same job year after year...[sarcasm/]

 

[SkyNation]

From what I've read, it can take some time, maybe even a year or more to hammer out the first contract.

maybe? MAYBE EVEN A YEAR?! try 3-6.

ASA's TA took them 5 years. This was from an experienced MEC. ours will be a rookie MEC, and if it happens count on them saying 'hey guys, give us a break. this was our first one, it'll get better with the next one,' and on and on and on.

haters! pile on now with how SAPA is worse, JA is the devil, you're just looking out for us in the industry, blah blah blah blah.

I guess every SkyWest thread for the next month or two will go down this same road. yipppee!

 

[MYFpilot]

maybe? MAYBE EVEN A YEAR?! try 3-6.

ASA's TA took them 5 years. This was from an experienced MEC. ours will be a rookie MEC, and if it happens count on them saying 'hey guys, give us a break. this was our first one, it'll get better with the next one,' and on and on and on.

For an explanation of the infamous 5 year ASA negotiations please read: http://www.skywestalpa.org/documents/WhitePapers__ASASec6Negotiations.pdf


ASA's TA will help SkyWest ALPA during our first negotiation. We can take their contract and adapt and improve it specifically for SkyWest. Plus we would have lots of help from ALPA national. I think 2 years would be a reasonable estimate for completion of our first contract.

haters! pile on now with how SAPA is worse, JA is the devil, you're just looking out for us in the industry, blah blah blah blah.

I guess every SkyWest thread for the next month or two will go down this same road. yipppee!

Sorry to disappoint, No hate, I just try to keep it pithy!!

Come on, You have to admit though SAPA, and some of the guys on it are pretty embarrassing and for the most part worthless. I do respect JA very much and I think he's a pretty good guy. I think SkyWest is just a little to big now for that to matter. I believe it's now time to look out for ourselves and become an equal partner with management in our careers and SkyWest's success.

 

[SkyNation]

Come on, You have to admit though SAPA, and some of the guys on it are pretty embarrassing and for the most part worthless. I do respect JA very much and I think he's a pretty good guy.

AGREED!


...but two years is still too long.

 

[PCL_128]

...but two years is still too long.

If your management team is really so benevolent, then they could settle the contract in a day. It only takes a while if management decides to be intransigent and dig in their heals. Besides, during the time that the contract is being negotiated, you will still continue to operate under your current pay and work rules, including your yearly longevity raises. Do you really think that JA is just going to give you a better agreement in less than 2 years anyway?

 

[WWEfan]

It took ASA 5 years because of the worst downturn in the history of the business AND an ownership change. The fact that ASA just completed a deal would likely speed up SKYW's negotiations. I would expect JA to agree to something very similar if not identical.

 

[Goose Egg]

Thanks guys for all your responses. You've helped me relieve a lot of stress.

-Goose

 

[Gr82Aviate]

AGREED!


...but two years is still too long.

Yeah right...waiting 7 years since my last COLA for a 1% increase for the next 4 years is way better!

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Goose. Now that you have had your question answered maybe you can address the question I have been asking you on another thread. You mention that you want to "get your time and get the freak out". Are you hoping to "get the freak out" to a union carrier?

 

[difete]

This is why it took 5 years for ASA

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots​

September 2007​

The Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA) pilots have been in negotiations for five years
and in federal mediation with the National Mediation Board (NMB) for more than three
years.
ASA, a Delta Connection carrier, was purchased by SkyWest, Inc. in September 2005
and, at that time, management demonstrated some interest in concluding pilot contract
talks. Tentative agreements were reached for several sections that previously contained
only a handful of open issues. Several sections remain open including Compensation,
Retirement, Insurance, Scope, and Instructor Pilots.
In May 2006, the NMB indefinitely recessed the talks, citing the significant distance
between the current pilot and management proposals for the remaining sections of the
contract. The parties met briefly with the NMB in August 2006 to assess the status of the
pilot and management positions, but the NMB opted to continue the recess period.
During the summer months of 2006, the ASA Master Executive Council (MEC)
conducted a successful strike authorization ballot, met with other Delta code-share
partners to discuss negotiating strategies and the current concessionary pressures, and,
in September 2006, opened a strike center in office space above the current MEC office.
The Contract Negotiating Committee (CNC), the MEC and ALPA staff have continued
to meet to consider any changes in the industry that would warrant adjustments to the
ASA collective bargaining strategy.
In the interim, ASA and SkyWest continue to post quarterly profits, offer shareholders
dividends, and tout their success in the industry. SkyWest senior management has
attempted to pressure the ASA labor groups in negotiations with flying and equipment
orders, which management has openly routed to SkyWest Airlines.
The ASA pilots recognize that SkyWest management is sensitive to the airing of
corporate “dirty laundry” and continue to apply pressure to negotiate a deal. In
October 2006, the ASA pilots ran newspaper ads in the​

Salt Lake Tribune and the​

Spectrum​

​

(the daily Utah newspaper where SkyWest, Inc. is based). They also conducted
informational picketing in front of SkyWest, ASA and Delta headquarters.​

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots
September 2007 2​

On Friday, October 13, 2006, more than 100 pilots engaged in informational picketing at
the SkyWest, Inc. headquarters, in St George, Utah. A large contingent of ASA pilots
were joined by pilots from other ALPA carriers including then​

−ALPA President
Captain Duane Woerth. This demonstration of pilot unity indicated how ALPA pilots
feel regarding SkyWest management’s foot-dragging in negotiations.
This informational picketing was a refreshing sight of pilots who are comfortable and
unafraid to publicly express their legitimate frustration with an employer who has
consistently and repeatedly refused to recognize the important contribution of the ASA
pilots to the success of the airline.​

Background Information on the ASA Negotiations​

Why five years?​

Each contract negotiation presents a unique set of opportunities and difficulties, and
ASA negotiations have had more than its share of time-delaying difficulties.
First, the negotiations began in the wake of the 9/11 tragedy when the industry was in a
period of unprecedented uncertainty and disarray making any serious discussions
about commitments for the future very difficult.
The ASA pilots directed their leadership to negotiate clear unambiguous language that
will not be subject to the management’s reinterpretation at a later date. Such clarity
enforces the intent of the collective bargaining agreement and will reduce grievances.
Second, during the negotiations, ASA was sold by Delta to SkyWest, Inc. Again, this
transfer of ownership and ensuing uncertainty made progress in the negotiations very
difficult for an extended period of time.
Last and most importantly, despite the fact that ASA’s new parent company (SkyWest,
Inc.) continues to make significant profits, it was not until July 2006 that the Company
made its first proposal that contained a net gain for the ASA pilots. Up until that time,
all Company proposals amounted to a net reduction in pilot compensation, work rules,
and benefits. This was Management’s first, non-regressive proposal and would have
only increased the carrier’s pilot costs by 2.9 percent.
On September 22, 2006, with the concurrence of the ASA MEC, then​

−ALPA President
Duane Woerth sent a letter to the National Mediation Board formally requesting that
the NMB issue a proffer of arbitration. The NMB asked the employer to respond to
ALPA’s request by October 12, 2006, and as expected, the company urged the NMB not
to issue a proffer of arbitration.​

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots
September 2007 3​

On February 23, 2007, again with the concurrence of the ASA-MEC, President John
Prater sent a second letter to the National Mediation Board requesting that the NMB
issue a proffer of arbitration.
Although it is always dangerous to speculate how the NMB will process any specific
negotiations, it would be normal for the Board to meet with the parties separately for
individual briefings and then order some type of special or expedited mediation process
designed to foster an agreement.​

Negotiations History​

Mediated talks were held May 17 & 18, 2007 in Washington DC and June 27, 28 & 29,
2007 in downtown Atlanta. At the end of both sessions the same five Sections remained
opened.
On Tuesday, August 28, 2007 mediated negotiations took place in Washington DC.
Representatives for the company and the CNC, members of the MEC, ALPA staff
attorneys, and Randy Helling – ALPA’s Executive Administrator to President John
Prater – were present. The CNC received two proposals from the company,
simultaneously, the evening prior to the first meeting: Option 1 and Option 2.
Management’s Option 1 proposal had better pay rates, little scope protection and a
minimal signing bonus. Option 2 presented a lesser rate increase, some scope
protection and slightly more of a signing bonus. Neither option alone was adequate to
embrace. In fact, both options combined were inadequate and fell well short of the
pilots’ requirements in scope, pay rates, signing bonus and duty rigs.
In the morning, the Association countered comprehensive full language proposals on
all the remaining open issues. In result, the Association and company are close to
tentative agreements in Section 18 Instructor Pilots, Section 27 Retirement, Section 28
Insurance, and Section 30 Duration. These Sections are pending final review for
typographical errors. At the conclusion of the meetings on Tuesday, August 28, 2007,
the remaining open issues are: Scope, Pay Rates, Profit Sharing, Duty Rigs and the
Signing Bonus.
Meetings resumed Wednesday, August 29, 2007. When discussing our scope proposal,
we explained the importance of job security so we can live without threats like the
displacement of aircraft, which has happened here already. The Association’s staff
cited the days of Frank Lorenzo and his role in the destruction of airlines as an example
to what we face today. The CNC has proposed to protect pilot job security when, and
if, SkyWest transfers of aircraft between carriers by allowing pilots to follow the
transferred aircraft. This protects pilots transferring from ASA to SKW or SKY to ASA.​

 

[difete]

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots
September 2007 4​

When discussing pay rates and signing bonus, the Association laid out what it is trying
to achieve and explained how profitable ASA had been and continues to be. The
Association also referred to profit sharing and explained that while it is not the most
desirable method of compensation, it would be willing to accept it in lieu of industry
leading pay rates. The Association further explained how management still continues
to tie the idea of profit sharing to a preferential bidding system (PBS) even though the
profit sharing program is already available to all other, non contract employees. All the
negative aspects of accepting PBS were portrayed to the NMB. The Association
reiterated that ASA pilots should not have to give up two years’ worth of negotiating a
new scheduling section only to change to a different bidding system. Also discussed
were duty rigs and their importance in ensuring that the company schedules pilots
efficiently.
The Association stressed to the NMB the importance of a deadline with consequences to
both parties if unable to reach a deal. It was noted that the Association does not want to
strike but rather achieve a contract that is fair and reasonable. A definitive time line
will do just that. The Association further goes on record that it was prepared to do its
part and is extremely disappointed that this latest round of talks did not result in a
complete Tentative Agreement.​

Strike Preparedness Committee (SPC) Activities​

Prior to this round of negotiations, the SPC launched an aggressive informational
picketing campaign in early August. The pickets included ATL, SLC, DCA and ten
outstations throughout Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee and Virginia. Additional,
SPC efforts include newspaper ads and Recurrent Ground School luncheons and mobile
billboards.​

ALPA Resources​

I. Pilot Contract Negotiating Committee (CNC), prior to the amendable date of the
current contract, received training in the collective bargaining process and met
with staff members from Representation and Economic & Financial Analysis to
conduct industry analysis and prepare the contract opener. A contract
administrator – attorney from Representation is an attorney with both negotiating
and contract compliance (grievance) experience. This individual works closely
with the pilot negotiators throughout the process and is present at all times with
the negotiating team at the bargaining table.
II. Pilot negotiators meet with ALPA staff from specific departments such as
Retirement and Insurance, Communications, Economic Financial and Analysis and
Legal during the negotiation of related issues. ALPA staff provides analysis, makes
recommendations, and helps negotiators to understand the practical application of​

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots
September 2007 5​

what the pilots are negotiating (and what has and hasn’t worked at other ALPA
properties).
III. The ALPA Communications Committee has worked with the ASA pilot leadership
to develop a strategic communications plan (as well as numerous updates) that
encompasses the goals and strategies of the negotiating effort, the communications
support necessary to keep the pilot members educated and motivated throughout
the process, appropriate means of communicating with management away from
the bargaining table, and a mass media campaign to build public support and
apply external pressure on management to comply with pilot contract priorities.
As part of the ASA negotiations effort, the ALPA Communications Department
has assisted with:​

•​

Design, content, and editing of the ASA MEC website and all publications
(paper and electronic).​

•​

Coverage in the Association’s FastRead e-mail newsletter and Air Line Pilot​

magazine.​

•​

Media support, i.e., training, talking points for media spokesmen, media kits,
press releases, and media advisories for specific events and issues.​

•​

Training, coordination, content, legal assistance (permit acquisition), and onhand
support for informational picketing efforts.​

•​

Coordination of mobile billboards.​

•​

Training, organization, content, and support for specialized communications
tools such as Pilot-to-Pilot®* and Family Awareness.​

•​

Direction and support for meetings, rallies, road shows, and other events
including a special informational picketing event at SkyWest Headquarters in
St. George, Utah. ALPA arranged for buses to transport picketers from the BOD
meeting in Las Vegas to SkyWest offices; pilots and Association officials from
numerous carriers participated. The event received extensive media coverage,
and an ad ran in the local newspaper.​

•​

Artwork and coordination for billboards and newspaper ads.​

•​

Videotaping, Web streaming.
IV. Spearheaded by Communications, Representation, and Finance, ALPA assisted the
ASA MEC in requesting and attaining a $2 million grant (above and beyond the
pilot group’s regular budget) from the Association’s Major Contingency Fund to
provide member support in the form of communications, events, giveaways, and
related items and activities to support negotiations.​

*​

​

Pilot-to-Pilot is a registered mark of the Air Line Pilots Association.​

ALPA Support for ASA Pilots
September 2007 6​

V. Coordination and consultation for both in-house surveying (Membership) and
outside polling (Wilson Center for Public Research).
VI. Assistance from Real Estate/Facilities Management in locating new MEC office
space and opening a strike center.
VII. Assistance from IT Support Services in setting up and coordinating phones and
computers in the new MEC office space and strike center.
Even though the ASA pilots are negotiating to amend their current contract, they
continue to have the right to fight unfair discipline in front of a neutral arbitrator
through their grievance procedure. Without union representation they would be “at
will” employees and subject to discipline up to and including termination without
recourse to representation and review by an independent third-party neutral.​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]

Information provided by:
ALPA’s Representation Department​

[/FONT]

 

[Goose Egg]

Goose. Now that you have had your question answered maybe you can address the question I have been asking you on another thread. You mention that you want to "get your time and get the freak out". Are you hoping to "get the freak out" to a union carrier?

Well, first of all, that statement, while still true in some respects, may have been misunderstood and was probably not the best choice of words on my part.

And to answer your question, no, not to a union carrier. In fact, if everything goes according to plan, I wouldn't be going to a carrier at all, union or non. Flying at a major just isn't a career goal of mine, niether is being a lifer at a regional. I would explain why, but I think that's a separate issue entirely and I won't get into that here.

By the same token, I can't say it would never happen--you never know what life will hand you. And in that case, I would work at a union carrier and happily do so.

I think the question on the table is not whether unions are evil and curse to the industry--we all know they have their purposes. I think the question, for me at least, is a union needed at SkyWest at this point of time, and if so, is ALPA that union? To me it's really nothing more than that. And I'm carefully considering both sides of the argument. That's really all I can say at this time.

Perhaps this will be an improper choice of words again, but there seems to be no short supply of hotheads on either side of this issue, demanding that one think and act a certain way. I'm not going to make the mistake of buying into that type of thought again. This should be a rational decision where facts are considered rather than emotional appeals.

And that's what I have to say about that.

-Goose