SKYWEST to PAY 4.8 MILLION FOR MOVE

[goodto50meters]

Staple Staple Staple!


Who Bought Who?

Blow it out your Swingline!!!!!

 

[propsarebest]

Blow it out your Swingline!!!!!

ummm, no.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Scarlet,

I give up. You have zero reading comprehension. You're mumbling about Wal-Mart which incidentally I don't patronize. None of this is remotely close to relevant. You're claiming that I'm opposed to merging the lists. Where did I say that Scarlet? All I said is that we're not airline economists or accountants. I don't pretend to know all the financial implications of a merger. You also made it obvious that you're unaware of all the back-office integration that's already occurred. The 2 airlines have already combined many functions and are saving money according to what's been publicly stated by SkyWest, Inc. managment. All I've quite plainly stated is that any list integration should be done in a fair an equitable manner. Is that what you object to? You think you should have an advantage over SKYW pilots?

Get someone to help you read my posts and then formulate a cogent response. You're sounding like a 14 year old, not a professional pilot.

Dave,
All of us at ASA aren't as clueless as scarlet and Tomct. They don't speak for the rest of us. I understand what you are trying to say to these guys, but I'm afraid it is a waste of time.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Dave-

Got an MBA and you think you're smarter than everyone else on this board huh? I know quite a few MBA's that couldn't do what others without MBA's have done. Unless your last name is Hawking, I'm not at all impressed with your IQ. People with GED's are entitled to have their opinions wether mispelled or not.

It would help if people like Scarlet and Tomct sounded like they at least finished High School. Although they do sound like products of the public education system. I'll take Dave's knowledge over yours or Scarlets or Tomcts. Not because he has an MBA, but because he makes rational points based on knowledge.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Actually it doesn't come as a shock at all. I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of ASA pilots are reasonable and levelheaded professionals. I also doubt that there are too many SKYW pilots that feel a staple is fair or realistic. Somewhere in the middle lies a solution that neither group would be real happy with yet it would be somewhat fair.

You guys might need to find a shed to take a certain captain behind and explain why even talking about denying jumpseats is a bad idea.

Well said Dave.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave,
All of us at ASA aren't as clueless as scarlet and Tomct. They don't speak for the rest of us. I understand what you are trying to say to these guys, but I'm afraid it is a waste of time.

Rest assured I don't view Scarlet and Tomct as representative of the ASA pilot group. The ASA pilots I've met over the years are exactly the sort of gentlemen that you want to see in the cockpit when you're putting the wife and kids on an aircraft - levelheaded, responsible, and professional.

 

[Andy Neill]

Have any ASA pilots based at SLC considered making the move to SkyWest? I'm guessing that the recruitment folks would be more than happy to bring them in soon. It seems at least those with the least invested with ASA or perhaps those who had to move from DFW to SLC would be the ones most likely to.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

To me a staple is just as reasonable a solution as DOH. So yes there is some sarcasm there. I figure if an ASA guys pushes for DOH we should be pushing just as hard for a staple since neither is an equitable solution.

An equitable merger protocol would take these factors into account and preserve the all important career expectations.

1. Average ASA pilot is more senior than average SKYW pilot
2. SKYW pilots historically upgrade much faster than ASA pilots, in some cases less than 6 months and generally within 2 or 3 years

3. ASA was rescued from near certain bankruptcy
4. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of UAX flying
5. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of west coast bases
6. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of potential codeshare flying for partner other than DAL. SKYW actively bids for flying with other airlines according to SEC filed documents.

So an equitable merger protocol would not harm SKYW pilots the way a pure DOH merger would. An equitable merger protocol would force ASA pilots to make some sort of sacrifice in exchange for the new opportunties offered. In light of the fact that ASA would be bankrupt had they not been purchased by SKYW how can any reasonable person suggest that SKYW pilots be harmed in the aftermath of a merger?

Bottom line? The only fair way to merge the lists would be using some sort of ratio and fences.

Bottomline.

Maybe ASA pilots should just strike and close the whole damn place.

 

[hoover]

Instead of looking at it as "one company buying another", look at it as two companies merging to form a new one. In this case, DOH seems to me a fair solution. Everyone brings with them their seniority, longevity, and current position. Nobody loses anything.

 

[rtmcfi]

Instead of looking at it as "one company buying another", look at it as two companies merging to form a new one. In this case, DOH seems to me a fair solution. Everyone brings with them their seniority, longevity, and current position. Nobody loses anything.

Please explain why DOH is better than relative seniority.

 

[atlcrashpad]

DOH or Staple? Operate them as separate companies is what MGT is going to do. No matter what is said on FI, nothing is going to change except blood pressure.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Instead of looking at it as "one company buying another", look at it as two companies merging to form a new one. In this case, DOH seems to me a fair solution. Everyone brings with them their seniority, longevity, and current position. Nobody loses anything.

Newsflash Hoover. It's not a merger. You got bought. Had you not been bought you would be taking big concessions like you friends at CMR or DAL would have shut down for lack of cash.
DOH would be a losing proposition for SKYW pilots. SKYW has guys with less than 2 years that are captains. There are even some with closer to a year with the company that have already upgraded.

If DOH is the way to go why aren't America West pilots embracing that idea? You'll have just as much luck finding support for DOH as the US Air guys. It's not going to happen.

You want everyone to "bring with them their seniority, longevity, and current position." Then you have to merge the list by relative seniority not DOH. Please ask one of your MEC reps to explain the definition of "career expectations" as outlined in the ALPA merger manual.
Here's my previously posted list of reasons why DOH is a pipe dream for you.

An equitable merger protocol would take these factors into account and preserve the all important career expectations.

1. Average ASA pilot is more senior than average SKYW pilot
2. SKYW pilots historically upgrade much faster than ASA pilots, in some cases less than 6 months and generally within 2 or 3 years

3. ASA was rescued from near certain bankruptcy
4. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of UAX flying
5. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of west coast bases
6. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of potential codeshare flying for partner other than DAL. SKYW actively bids for flying with other airlines according to SEC filed documents.

So an equitable merger protocol would not harm SKYW pilots the way a pure DOH merger would. An equitable merger protocol would force ASA pilots to make some sort of sacrifice in exchange for the new opportunties offered. In light of the fact that ASA would be bankrupt had they not been purchased by SKYW how can any reasonable person suggest that SKYW pilots be harmed in the aftermath of a merger?

 

[atlcrashpad]

Dave Benjamin,

You can post your wish list all you want. It is MGT who has the say. Do you think they want a Larger pilot group? NO. MGT will run ASA and SKYW as separate companies. Ask or demand all you want on a free internet web board and you'll get absolute squat.

Have a nice day.

 

[bacardi]

Have any ASA pilots based at SLC considered making the move to SkyWest? I'm guessing that the recruitment folks would be more than happy to bring them in soon. It seems at least those with the least invested with ASA or perhaps those who had to move from DFW to SLC would be the ones most likely to.

I applied a few months ago, and even talked to the girl down in St. George who is in charge of hiring, no reponse, no letter, no interview. I guess because i've flown every airplane skywest has makes me too qualified. Or they just dont like A.S.A.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

atlcrashpad,

I didn't say it was going to happen. I was just trying to point out why DOH integration is patently absurd. I'm not sure if you read another post I wrote but I pointed out the same thing you did. Managment is calling the shots and that isn't likely to change until 2009 if we see a fundamental shift of political power.

 

[rtmcfi]

I applied a few months ago, and even talked to the girl down in St. George who is in charge of hiring, no reponse, no letter, no interview. I guess because i've flown every airplane skywest has makes me too qualified. Or they just dont like A.S.A.

Try again....

I don't think SkyWest has been hiring much recently, but judging from posts on here, that is about to change. You would breeze through ground school, and they are paying during the new hires now. First year pay would suck again, but so would a commute. SkyWest would do well to offer an olive branch of sorts to the ASA guys that want to stay in SLC. Good luck to ya!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Scarlet, Tomct, and Adamsworld are definately not representative of the ASA group. " Shut the dang thing down!" Adams very mature solution to this problem.

The other two are probably relatively junior FO's who see a chance to exploit a more junior seniority to their advantage.

A percentage based merger is THE ONLY equitable way here. For you too junior guys this means that if your in the lower 20% at ASA your butt is in the lower 20% of a combined pilot roster.

Please explain how that's not "Fair"..

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Dave, you're gonna have to remember that adage about wrestling with a pig in the mud with some of these guys.

 

[atlcrashpad]

atlcrashpad,

I didn't say it was going to happen. I was just trying to point out why DOH integration is patently absurd. I'm not sure if you read another post I wrote but I pointed out the same thing you did. Managment is calling the shots and that isn't likely to change until 2009 if we see a fundamental shift of political power.

Dave,

Sorry if I mistook what you said. Sometimes wadding through six pages, you loose what the intent of the original posting. I do agree that MGT will not merge the two pilot groups. It makes sense to operate them as two separate companies. Besides, one is union and the other is not. How is that going to blend? Keep all of the info flowing. Best of luck to all involved. Peace.... Bouyyyyyyyyy

 

[USCtrojan]

Unions and Merger

Newsflash Hoover. It's not a merger. You got bought. Had you not been bought you would be taking big concessions like you friends at CMR or DAL would have shut down for lack of cash.
DOH would be a losing proposition for SKYW pilots. SKYW has guys with less than 2 years that are captains. There are even some with closer to a year with the company that have already upgraded.

If DOH is the way to go why aren't America West pilots embracing that idea? You'll have just as much luck finding support for DOH as the US Air guys. It's not going to happen.

You want everyone to "bring with them their seniority, longevity, and current position." Then you have to merge the list by relative seniority not DOH. Please ask one of your MEC reps to explain the definition of "career expectations" as outlined in the ALPA merger manual.
Here's my previously posted list of reasons why DOH is a pipe dream for you.

An equitable merger protocol would take these factors into account and preserve the all important career expectations.

1. Average ASA pilot is more senior than average SKYW pilot
2. SKYW pilots historically upgrade much faster than ASA pilots, in some cases less than 6 months and generally within 2 or 3 years

3. ASA was rescued from near certain bankruptcy
4. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of UAX flying
5. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of west coast bases
6. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of potential codeshare flying for partner other than DAL. SKYW actively bids for flying with other airlines according to SEC filed documents.

So an equitable merger protocol would not harm SKYW pilots the way a pure DOH merger would. An equitable merger protocol would force ASA pilots to make some sort of sacrifice in exchange for the new opportunties offered. In light of the fact that ASA would be bankrupt had they not been purchased by SKYW how can any reasonable person suggest that SKYW pilots be harmed in the aftermath of a merger?

I agree with your statements. This should not be a windfall for ASA pilots. Fences and protections will have to initially protect everyone. However, remember, in our current scenario, Skywest is taking 13 of OUR airplanes. Basically we are providing 13 70 seat aircraft for your growth. I believe that should be taken into some kind of consideration. What I want is for you and me and everyone else at our extremely profitable airline to talk and work everything out. This is going to be an incredible place to be.

Trojan