Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

SkyWest to IAD

  • Thread starter Thread starter USC328
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 30

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
you regional guys have your heads up your butz.
Click to expand...

I didn't know this had gone to the point of that comment.

I am sure you have to be good to fly into ASE. But, what I am saying is there is a whole other world out there that many regional pilots can't even comprehend, and obviously don't think about.
Click to expand...

There's a whole world that many major pilots have forgotten about, if they were ever there to begin with. No matter how you put it, as in regional pilots can't comprehend, or as I put it, haven't done it since the Nixon administration for the grey hairs in the left seat of the 777 there are gaps. The been there done that thing a couple of decades ago doesn't sit well with me for boasting rights.
 
rtmcfi said:
Hey general, I might have missed your response. Did delta have a policy after they bought Western that a former Western pilot had to be in the cockpit on the flghts to the mountain cities out of SLC?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just read the first one. I wasn't around during that merger (I am a 96 hire), so I can't say for sure, but I believe you might be correct. Anytime you fly into a new area, there are checkairmen watching. That is prudent. I don't know how long that lasted, but I bet until the DL guys were comfortable. I know an ATL 767ER Checkairman, and he goes on quite a few flights now with the LAX 767ER crews down to Sao Paulo on their nonstop from LAX---to make sure those guys get the training so they can do it by themselves eventually. Wouldn't you say that is smart? Sure beats flying to Rapid City, eh?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Russ said:
I didn't know this had gone to the point of that comment.



There's a whole world that many major pilots have forgotten about, if they were ever there to begin with. No matter how you put it, as in regional pilots can't comprehend, or as I put it, haven't done it since the Nixon administration for the grey hairs in the left seat of the 777 there are gaps. The been there done that thing a couple of decades ago doesn't sit well with me for boasting rights.
Click to expand...


The "world" that major airlines pilots have forgotten about was due to legacies giving away routes to the regionals. How many legacy pilots wanted to give away Montana flying? I can tell you---ZERO. The customers also liked the mainline planes, and RJs are a sad excuse for a replacement. Also, besides some nice destinations that should remain mainline flying (like Montana), what are major airline pilots missing or forgetting about when it comes to regionals? Less pay? Tougher work schedules? More legs per day? Flying with newbees? None of that sounds appealling to a major airline pilot, which is why many left the regionals in the first place. The legacies are figuring out that RJs aren't worth it, and more and more will go away, leaving you guys to find new feed (Airtran and United--ASA) for very little financial gain. That means regionals will get smaller, and those same cities once dumped by Legacies will eventually come back into the fold. All will be complete eventually. Add new FAA work rules coming up here, and the regionals will lose a lot of their cost advantages, resulting in more nails in the coffin. But hey, maybe you can follow the ASA CR7s to Vietnam, they may need your services. (Brad Holt may allow you to switch over....)


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
The only reason SkyWest is doing this.. Is 1.) they have a COS base, 2.) it needs to be a 700 not a 200. Lets remember its only one flight. If ASA had 700's for United and SkyWest didnt have a COS base im sure it would have been them. Move on......
 
General Lee said:
The legacies are figuring out that RJs aren't worth it, and more and more will go away
Click to expand...

Don't worry. We are all waiting for that day. The reason the RJs are on their way out is that financial incentives that made them effective are basically gone. More mainline planes, better for most of us. You act as though this is a huge threat. It isn't.
 
Thou its just my opinion, I would gather to guess if Mainline offered pay raises and "other" incentives (such as guaranteed retirement/benifit packages" for scope, they would go for it. The industry is changing again, domestic flying, except for the transcon, high volume markets, is better suited for the lower cost structure that the regionals do offer. Plus it takes pressure off the majors with risk. A (insert regional) can offer lower risk and bigger reward if a market does at sometime justify mainline service. The profit margins are way to small for mainline to put a 757/A320/737 etc on a flight like COS-IAD or name another such market route. But put a CRJ700/900 etc on it, it works.

Majors are moving more of their ops to international routes from their hubs, where they can charge more, get more of a return, and have little to no competition from the LCCs that operate domestic. Plus gain even more from alliances.

As much as I would LOVE the majors to bring on board the RJs and we can all join the seniority list, its pretty much too late. Why should the majors put risk on their profits when they can get a much lower cost regional to do the flying and then bid against other regionals for such flying with contracts for 1 to 3 years to lower the cost even further.

Maybe I am wrong but wouldnt it stand to think that a international route for a major has bigger profit margins than a domesitic one, especially when you factor in LCC competition on said domestic route.
 
BHopper88 said:
Thou its just my opinion, I would gather to guess if Mainline offered pay raises and "other" incentives (such as guaranteed retirement/benifit packages" for scope, they would go for it. The industry is changing again, domestic flying, except for the transcon, high volume markets, is better suited for the lower cost structure that the regionals do offer. Plus it takes pressure off the majors with risk. A (insert regional) can offer lower risk and bigger reward if a market does at sometime justify mainline service. The profit margins are way to small for mainline to put a 757/A320/737 etc on a flight like COS-IAD or name another such market route. But put a CRJ700/900 etc on it, it works.
Click to expand...

The risk is about to increase a bunch. There is a move afoot that will allow consumers to sue the airline(s) that has their name on the plane. For example, Continental may be assessed some of the blame for the Colgan crash. Sound far fetched? Congress is working on it right now. So far as low cost goes, the regional have been increasing their labor costs so that cost savings on labor isn't very apparent.

My bet goes to mainline pulling back on scope.
 
BHopper88 said:
Thou its just my opinion, I would gather to guess if Mainline offered pay raises and "other" incentives (such as guaranteed retirement/benifit packages" for scope, they would go for it. The industry is changing again, domestic flying, except for the transcon, high volume markets, is better suited for the lower cost structure that the regionals do offer. Plus it takes pressure off the majors with risk. A (insert regional) can offer lower risk and bigger reward if a market does at sometime justify mainline service. The profit margins are way to small for mainline to put a 757/A320/737 etc on a flight like COS-IAD or name another such market route. But put a CRJ700/900 etc on it, it works.

Majors are moving more of their ops to international routes from their hubs, where they can charge more, get more of a return, and have little to no competition from the LCCs that operate domestic. Plus gain even more from alliances.

As much as I would LOVE the majors to bring on board the RJs and we can all join the seniority list, its pretty much too late. Why should the majors put risk on their profits when they can get a much lower cost regional to do the flying and then bid against other regionals for such flying with contracts for 1 to 3 years to lower the cost even further.

Maybe I am wrong but wouldnt it stand to think that a international route for a major has bigger profit margins than a domesitic one, especially when you factor in LCC competition on said domestic route.
Click to expand...

Heck no. Most of the people left flying at the legacies have been AFFECTED by RJ growth. You think an offer for this or that would just change legacy pilots' minds? No way. The ONLY reason RJs went from 70 to 76 seats was because of a BK judge. We didn't offer that, it was handed down to us. And, I don't see that happening again any time soon, so your wishes of flying even larger RJs (like 100 seaters) just won't be happening. The senior guys who don't care have either already left or are about to---and that should worry you. INTL routes are profitable, but giving away everything domestic just doesn't make sense, and we are seeing RJs getting parked, and DC9-50s starting to replace RJs on certian ATL routes to better compete with Airtran 717s. It won't stop there. I love that you are assuming all of this may happen, and you are an E120 FO. Yeah, you hope so. News flash for you. Most people HATE RJs, and businessmen deplore them. Your E120s are worse. Transcons are flown by larger planes, and with the Economy down the tubes, more people can't afford private jets (look, Netjets has furloughed pilots), and have to fly 1st class on Majors. Most legacies also fly hub and spoke system--transferring a lot of pax through the hubs. Does Airtran have any RJs in ATL? (nope, only MKE) Does Jetblue fly any RJs at JFK? How about Virgin America? These guys fly mainline sized planes, and are doing fairly well. We should fly RJs to cities that have NO LCC competition. If we fly an RJ against a LCC, we lose, everytime. That is what is changing with DC9-50s starting to fly against 717s---it is time to stop the losses, and again, that aint good for you. You should HOPE for more mainline hiring, maybe it will get you an upgrade instead of krap wages the rest of your life while you fly to Idaho Falls. Your argument about flying an RJ from IAD to COS could work, since NO OTHER plane flies it currently. But, you may turn away passengers from future flights because of extreme discomfort. DL flew CR7s from OAK to DFW and onto DCA, and they lost miserably to AA and their mainline planes. Offering the only flight, could work, but add free pillows for the passengers' butz.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:
Some of my fellow RJ guys/gals in here have me confused. The majority of mainline pilots did our type of flying in B1900 D328's F100's, DC9's and 732's. They have seen it all plus all of the international ops that they are now doing. They will always have the edge in experience. That's the point, that's why they were hired at a mainline.

Hopefully a majority of us can switch over to mainline eventually as well.

Have some respect!
 
Tarzan said:
So far as low cost goes, the regional have been increasing their labor costs so that cost savings on labor isn't very apparent.

My bet goes to mainline pulling back on scope.
Click to expand...

Pulling back on scope will be very expensive. My bet is to wait it out and let us price ourselves out of the market. It will be slow, but in the long run effective.
 
Bako Cap said:
Pulling back on scope will be very expensive. My bet is to wait it out and let us price ourselves out of the market. It will be slow, but in the long run effective.
Click to expand...

The new FAA rules that will be coming out soon should price you out of the market. Details are scarce, but I have heard a minimum of 10 hours behind the door on all layovers, and maximum limits on legs per day. That is a key to your schedules, and would make your business model change right away. But hey, it will be safer!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I do mostly locals and sleep in my own bed every night, but even so, these rules sound good to me. I hope it will be safer.
 
Bako Cap said:
I do mostly locals and sleep in my own bed every night, but even so, these rules sound good to me. I hope it will be safer.
Click to expand...


Now THAT is the right attitude. I think a legacy or a LCC is right around the corner for you if you want it! Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
General Lee said:
Heck no. Most of the people left flying at the legacies have been AFFECTED by RJ growth. You think an offer for this or that would just change legacy pilots' minds? No way. The ONLY reason RJs went from 70 to 76 seats was because of a BK judge. We didn't offer that, it was handed down to us. And, I don't see that happening again any time soon, so your wishes of flying even larger RJs (like 100 seaters) just won't be happening. The senior guys who don't care have either already left or are about to---and that should worry you. INTL routes are profitable, but giving away everything domestic just doesn't make sense, and we are seeing RJs getting parked, and DC9-50s starting to replace RJs on certian ATL routes to better compete with Airtran 717s. It won't stop there. I love that you are assuming all of this may happen, and you are an E120 FO. Yeah, you hope so. News flash for you. Most people HATE RJs, and businessmen deplore them. Your E120s are worse. Transcons are flown by larger planes, and with the Economy down the tubes, more people can't afford private jets (look, Netjets has furloughed pilots), and have to fly 1st class on Majors. Most legacies also fly hub and spoke system--transferring a lot of pax through the hubs. Does Airtran have any RJs in ATL? (nope, only MKE) Does Jetblue fly any RJs at JFK? How about Virgin America? These guys fly mainline sized planes, and are doing fairly well. We should fly RJs to cities that have NO LCC competition. If we fly an RJ against a LCC, we lose, everytime. That is what is changing with DC9-50s starting to fly against 717s---it is time to stop the losses, and again, that aint good for you. You should HOPE for more mainline hiring, maybe it will get you an upgrade instead of krap wages the rest of your life while you fly to Idaho Falls. Your argument about flying an RJ from IAD to COS could work, since NO OTHER plane flies it currently. But, you may turn away passengers from future flights because of extreme discomfort. DL flew CR7s from OAK to DFW and onto DCA, and they lost miserably to AA and their mainline planes. Offering the only flight, could work, but add free pillows for the passengers' butz.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Hmm Don't know where you are getting your information, but there are plenty of people still flying on RJ's. The load factors are still high, even in a down economy. As far as comfort, even mainline planes have uncomfortable seats, and they become even more so when the flight is full. Your plane has to have feed to be profitable, and I don't see DC-9-50's as the only solution. Anywhere to Everywhere is not only the slogan, but the necessary strategy to remain profitable. That takes many planes of many different sizes to effect.

Now, "go get busy on the couch," and quit your RJ bashing!
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Back
Top