Skywest to buy Mesaba?

[G2T]

I absolutely agree with this, just look at what the interview process for Compass is now vs. before the merger. It does not appear as though our double-breasted owners appreciate the idea of someone else doing the hiring.

You mean how it was very similar to an NWA interview prior to the merger? I don't see how this means anything, it makes sense.

 

[Ridgeback]

WOW

This rumor can trace its orgins to the flow through. Most ASA/Skywest pilots are upset they don;t have a flowthrough into Delta. Look at the rumors buying either compass or mesaba only thing in common...flowthrough. I'm sure the conversation went something like this in an ASA cockpit..."dude it totally sucks those mesaba guys got a flowthrough...i want to work at delta, well didn't ya here we are buying them, that way we get the flow too."

This rumor really comes down to ASA pilots wanting a flowthrough...guess what, merging with Mesaba pilois does not get you that. IF? this is true your company has to honor the mesaba contract, and yes the flow survives. Any changes to that contract has to be negioated, you (ASA) simply don';t get to pick up the parts you like and dump the rest.

In other words...if you want a flow then get you MEC to start negoiating with your company, Delta mgt, and the Delta MEC...it only took Mesaba about ten years to get this done with NWA...

I envision any company that buys Mesaba or Compass and more of a USair east/west thing.

 

[AV8700]

WOW

This rumor can trace its orgins to the flow through. Most ASA/Skywest pilots are upset they don;t have a flowthrough into Delta. Look at the rumors buying either compass or mesaba only thing in common...flowthrough. I'm sure the conversation went something like this in an ASA cockpit..."dude it totally sucks those mesaba guys got a flowthrough...i want to work at delta, well didn't ya here we are buying them, that way we get the flow too."

This rumor really comes down to ASA pilots wanting a flowthrough...guess what, merging with Mesaba pilois does not get you that. IF? this is true your company has to honor the mesaba contract, and yes the flow survives. Any changes to that contract has to be negioated, you (ASA) simply don';t get to pick up the parts you like and dump the rest.

In other words...if you want a flow then get you MEC to start negoiating with your company, Delta mgt, and the Delta MEC...it only took Mesaba about ten years to get this done with NWA...

I envision any company that buys Mesaba or Compass and more of a USair east/west thing.

Your kidding right? I have never heard of anyone here talking or wishing for a flow and even if some had, do you think they could dictate to Inc. which companies to pursue.

 

[Ridgeback]

Your kidding right? I have never heard of anyone here talking or wishing for a flow and even if some had, do you think they could dictate to Inc. which companies to pursue.

That my point...last time I checked not to many mgt types on here. Thios is a pilot generated rumor.

Tell me this...after you do a little research.

For the state of MN to drop their 200 million dollar claim against delta for closingthe NWA headqarters to Atlanta Delta threw them a bone. Guess what they did...they moved compass from Virgina to MN and kept mesaba's in MN along with Natco and a few other places. So if ASA, skywest or whomever is going to buy Mesaba or compass they better attach a 200 million dollar premimum to them because the state of MN will be comming after that money. Also after you have done a little research get back to me on what comettie a certain sentator from the state of MN sits on.

 

[CaribPilot]

WOW

This rumor can trace its orgins to the flow through. Blah Blah

Blah Blah Blah

Blah Blah Blah

Blah Blah Blah

This has nothing to do with flow through....but everything to do with Delta offloading unwanted assets.

Your own colleagues are hearing this rumor over at Mesaba too.

 

[Butters]

WOW

This rumor can trace its orgins to the flow through. Most ASA/Skywest pilots are upset they don;t have a flowthrough into Delta.

Don't blame the ASA and/or Skywest pilots. This has nothing to do with them.

This rumor has been floating for a while but it has been amplified this week from within the Mesaba campus (as in the g.o. and training center). I think a lot of us at XJ are in denial that we could be sold and the certificate might go away. I don't want to see it happen but I'm sure not going to say it can't or won't happen. Most importantly, I'm not going to lash out at the ASA or Skywest pilots. This is not their fault and they may soon be our brothers. Let's not start a holy war over something none of us can control.

So what would someone get buying Mesaba? The flying that we do for Delta, the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and other employees. That's a lot of highly trained people who are already doing the job. Even though they could pay less for new hires, how soon can you staff 88 aircraft? Do you want all new hires doing that?

We know something is going on this week but we don't know what. I think most ASA and Skywest pilots that I have met are class acts and I would expect that if we were purchased or merged, they would do their best to welcome us just as we would do if the tables were turned.

Don't make this about them wanting a flowthrough. If they did, they could talk to Delta about it. Besides, if our certificate goes away odds are the flow is gone too. How mighty and tough can we talk then? We aren't any better than them in any way, shape, or form.

I have a lot of pride in the history of Mesaba too. Unfortunately to Delta that doesn't really matter.

Good luck to us all.

 

[Butters]

That my point...last time I checked not to many mgt types on here. Thios is a pilot generated rumor.

Tell me this...after you do a little research.

For the state of MN to drop their 200 million dollar claim against delta for closingthe NWA headqarters to Atlanta Delta threw them a bone. Guess what they did...they moved compass from Virgina to MN and kept mesaba's in MN along with Natco and a few other places. So if ASA, skywest or whomever is going to buy Mesaba or compass they better attach a 200 million dollar premimum to them because the state of MN will be comming after that money. Also after you have done a little research get back to me on what comettie a certain sentator from the state of MN sits on.

That's between Big Daddy D and the State of MN, not whoever buys Mesaba.

Plus they promised X many jobs in Minnesota. If we keep flying out of MSP, all those jobs still count. Get it?

I don't like this idea either but getting mad at the other carrier's pilots doesn't make it go away. Just because it doesn't make sense to you and me doesn't mean it won't happen either. This is a screwed up industry.

 

[livin'thesim]

Airframe breakdown at mesaba?

Occasionally. Especially when they had the A-models.

 

[B.T.Justice]

WOW

This rumor can trace its orgins to the flow through. Most ASA/Skywest pilots are upset they don;t have a flowthrough into Delta.

This rumor really comes down to ASA pilots wanting a flowthrough..

I don't know 1 pilot that wants a flow agreement. Your totally off base....ASA is more stable job because we don't have a flow agreement. Ask an Eagle guy what they think of flow

 

[Max Q]

Lay off the sauce, brokeback. It's common knowledge that a buyout eliminates the flow through.

 

[centralpilot]

Don't blame the ASA and/or Skywest pilots. This has nothing to do with them.

This rumor has been floating for a while but it has been amplified this week from within the Mesaba campus (as in the g.o. and training center). I think a lot of us at XJ are in denial that we could be sold and the certificate might go away. I don't want to see it happen but I'm sure not going to say it can't or won't happen. Most importantly, I'm not going to lash out at the ASA or Skywest pilots. This is not their fault and they may soon be our brothers. Let's not start a holy war over something none of us can control.

So what would someone get buying Mesaba? The flying that we do for Delta, the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and other employees. That's a lot of highly trained people who are already doing the job. Even though they could pay less for new hires, how soon can you staff 88 aircraft? Do you want all new hires doing that?

We know something is going on this week but we don't know what. I think most ASA and Skywest pilots that I have met are class acts and I would expect that if we were purchased or merged, they would do their best to welcome us just as we would do if the tables were turned.

Don't make this about them wanting a flowthrough. If they did, they could talk to Delta about it. Besides, if our certificate goes away odds are the flow is gone too. How mighty and tough can we talk then? We aren't any better than them in any way, shape, or form.

I have a lot of pride in the history of Mesaba too. Unfortunately to Delta that doesn't really matter.

Good luck to us all.

Classy post. If this rumor comes to pass I hope there are many more with this attitude on both sides. :beer:

 

[Long Time Gone]

Don't blame the ASA and/or Skywest pilots. This has nothing to do with them.

This rumor has been floating for a while but it has been amplified this week from within the Mesaba campus (as in the g.o. and training center). I think a lot of us at XJ are in denial that we could be sold and the certificate might go away. I don't want to see it happen but I'm sure not going to say it can't or won't happen. Most importantly, I'm not going to lash out at the ASA or Skywest pilots. This is not their fault and they may soon be our brothers. Let's not start a holy war over something none of us can control.

So what would someone get buying Mesaba? The flying that we do for Delta, the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and other employees. That's a lot of highly trained people who are already doing the job. Even though they could pay less for new hires, how soon can you staff 88 aircraft? Do you want all new hires doing that?

We know something is going on this week but we don't know what. I think most ASA and Skywest pilots that I have met are class acts and I would expect that if we were purchased or merged, they would do their best to welcome us just as we would do if the tables were turned.

Don't make this about them wanting a flowthrough. If they did, they could talk to Delta about it. Besides, if our certificate goes away odds are the flow is gone too. How mighty and tough can we talk then? We aren't any better than them in any way, shape, or form.

I have a lot of pride in the history of Mesaba too. Unfortunately to Delta that doesn't really matter.

Good luck to us all.

Classy post. Very well written.

 

[Medeco]

Don't blame the ASA and/or Skywest pilots. This has nothing to do with them.

This rumor has been floating for a while but it has been amplified this week from within the Mesaba campus (as in the g.o. and training center). I think a lot of us at XJ are in denial that we could be sold and the certificate might go away. I don't want to see it happen but I'm sure not going to say it can't or won't happen. Most importantly, I'm not going to lash out at the ASA or Skywest pilots. This is not their fault and they may soon be our brothers. Let's not start a holy war over something none of us can control.

So what would someone get buying Mesaba? The flying that we do for Delta, the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and other employees. That's a lot of highly trained people who are already doing the job. Even though they could pay less for new hires, how soon can you staff 88 aircraft? Do you want all new hires doing that?

We know something is going on this week but we don't know what. I think most ASA and Skywest pilots that I have met are class acts and I would expect that if we were purchased or merged, they would do their best to welcome us just as we would do if the tables were turned.

Don't make this about them wanting a flowthrough. If they did, they could talk to Delta about it. Besides, if our certificate goes away odds are the flow is gone too. How mighty and tough can we talk then? We aren't any better than them in any way, shape, or form.

I have a lot of pride in the history of Mesaba too. Unfortunately to Delta that doesn't really matter.

Good luck to us all.

Please take note, and let this be the standard. Well said!!!

Medeco

 

[SEVEN]

God Help Us All!!!

All you guys are way off base. Announcement to come shortly: Pinnacle Airlines to purchase Mesaba and Compass. You heard it here first.

 

[titans10]

Lay off the sauce, brokeback. It's common knowledge that a buyout eliminates the flow through.

Sure about that.
Have you seen what the Delta/NWA contract states about it.

 

[jetracer5]

Your kidding right? I have never heard of anyone here talking or wishing for a flow and even if some had, do you think they could dictate to Inc. which companies to pursue.

Yea I agree never really heard anybody really care for a flow through. As far as I know we have always kind of had a secret flow through with Delta anyways. Alot of ASA guys get hired at Delta so we really have no need for a flow.

 

[SplitBar]

Sure about that.
Have you seen what the Delta/NWA contract states about it.

I recall there being language in the flow agreement that addressed what would happen if Mesaba was sold and that the flow would transfer to the new airline. Can anyone post it?

 

[xjgearbtch]

"The right of any company pilot to flow down to MSA, or MSA pilot to flow up to NWA, pursuant to the terms of this Letter of Agreement shall be effective only so long as MSA remains an Affiliate of the Company, provided the parties will, prior to the termination of the flow through rights referenced herein, meet and confer for the purpose of discussing whether continuation or modification of this Flow Through Agreement would be appropriate given the circumstances at that time. Any continuation or modification shall require the mutual agreement of the parties."

As long as we fly for Delta, the flow will stay.

 

[i fly boxes]

All you guys are way off base. Announcement to come shortly: Pinnacle Airlines to purchase Mesaba and Compass. You heard it here first.

hey there is room for 2 more airlines at the bottom right of this page, and just look at that man to the left, your new leader. hahahah
http://www.pncl.com/

 

[Explosive]

As long as we fly for Delta, the flow will stay.

Unfortunately, flying for Delta does not make you an affiliate.

Applicable NWA contract language:

The term "Affiliate" means (i) NAC (NORTHWEST AIRLINES [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]CORPORATION)[/FONT][/FONT], (ii) any subsidiary, parent or division of the Company or NAC or any subsidiary, parent or division of either a parent or subsidiary of the Company or NAC or (iii) any entity that controls or manages NAC or the Company or is controlled by or managed by NAC or the Company.

"Participating Feeder Carrier" means a Domestic Air Carrier that is a Feeder Carrier (both as defined in Section 1 B.7.a. and Section 1 B.7.c.(1) of the Agreement) that has contracted with the Company to operate Qualifying Aircraft.

"Qualifying Aircraft" means a 51-76 seat aircraft as defined in Section 1.B[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]. [/FONT]7.c.(1) of the ALPA Restructuring Agreement. [/FONT]


a. "Category 1 Participating Feeder Carrier" means a Participating Feeder Carrier that is an Affiliate of the Company.

b. "Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier" means a Participating Feeder Carrier that is not an Affiliate of the Company and that operates Qualifying Aircraft that are owned, financed, leased, or sub-leased by the Company (not including the AVRO85 replacements at Mesaba Airlines).

c. "Category 3 Participating Feeder Carrier" means a Participating Feeder Carrier that is not an Affiliate of the Company and that operates Qualifying Aircraft that are not owned, financed, leased or sub-leased by the Company.


Offers of Opportunity (Filling of Vacancies)
1. A Category 1 Participating Feeder Carrier shall make 100% of New Positions (Captain and First Officer) and 100% of Backfill Positions available to Eligible Furloughed Pilots.

2. A Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier shall make 50% of New Positions (Captain and First Officer) and 100% of Backfill Positions available to Eligible Furloughed Pilots, subject to conditions and restrictions that provide for efficient and timely processing and hiring of such Eligible Furloughed Pilots.

3. The Company will provide enhanced opportunities for a laid off Company pilot to obtain pilot employment at a Category 3 Participating Feeder Carrier. As part of the negotiation of a new ASA agreement, or to amend an existing ASA agreement with a Category 3 Participating Feeder Carrier, the Human Resources Departments of the Company and such Feeder Carrier will develop a mutually acceptable program that will serve to provide laid off Company pilots who meet all other pilot hiring criteria defined by such Feeder Carrier with "additional weighting" relative to other pilot candidates not already employed by such Feeder Carrier. Nothing in this program will guarantee that any laid off Company pilot will be hired ahead of other candidates who are not laid off Company pilots


MSA Flow history lesson:

The reason MSA had a flow agreement put in place was because of a grievance settlement. By purchasing MSA, it became an “affiliate” under the NWA CBA (aka Category 1 Participating Feeder Carrier), which is why the flowthrough was put into place. See NWA LOAs 2007-04 & 05 (which resulted in NWA LOA 2008-01 MSA flowthrough agreement).

If MSA was not an affiliate (e.g., Pinnacle) they would have been a category 2 feeder carrier if NWA owned the planes. If NWA did not control the planes, it would have been category 3.

Pinnacle was not a "participating" feeder carrier because they did not operate "qualifying aircraft". By selling MSA & the planes, what's left becomes a category 3 feeder carrier. The company voids NWA LOA 2008-01, and thus no flow.