SKywest takes more Union Work

[BIGGOAT]

If we are to call non-union workers getting union work scab/scumbag then what do we call union workers getting union work?

Goat

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yes this is a union / non union deal, but what is really putting fuel on the fire is longevity. Longevity affects all of us, and the carriers we work for.

Considering the destruction of longevity and the fact that CVG is likely to go junior, 18 year Comair pilots making over $110K with benefits will be replaced by SkyWest pilots making only 55 to 70% as much (talking round numbers).

Eventually longevity will catch every airline and the destruction of our careers (no matter where you are at) will be the result. The only solution is to organize and establish scope which prevents our replacement.

There is a fundamental difference in the way a pilot looks at an airline and the way airlines view pilots. We pilots want to retire in the left seat of the biggest airplane 30 years from now while holding a good schedule. Airline management is focused on costs going into next quarter and see the senior pilots with vacation time, sick time and the benefits of senior bidding as over paid prima donnas that can be replaced by a new, enthusiastic, wet behind the ears flight school graduate for 50% of what they are paying now.

Comair's pilot group did everything the best they could for themselves - even to the point of betraying the ASA pilots - but it has not worked. Comair's concessionary bargaining did not work either. There are lessons to be learned here. Longevity makes more of a difference than contracts. Airline management will pick a few airlines to grow like weeds, then take them out by shifting flying to another new market entrant.

Why is Delta willing to walk away from a four Billion dollar investment? Because destroying longevity results in cost savings now. Instability and destruction saves money if the flying can be transferred to junior pilots.

The writing is on the wall for all successful airline subcontractors and the cycles will be violent. Grow like crazy for 5 to 7 years, then stagnate and die while management flows over to a new certificate and pilots start over from the bottom.

Brian LaBreque at ASA explained the cycle years ago and it is surely coming to pass.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we are to call non-union workers getting union work scab/scumbag then what do we call union workers getting union work?

Goat

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. I don't think they exist.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

they have opportunity to vote ALPA in we shall see?

Why would Skywest pilots vote in ALPA when they are the beneficiaries of ALPA's complete lack of effectiveness.

If ALPA had any power at all, they would prevent this shift of flying.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Yes this is a union / non union deal, but what is really putting fuel on the fire is longevity. Longevity affects all of us, and the carriers we work for.

Considering the destruction of longevity and the fact that CVG is likely to go junior, 18 year Comair pilots making over $110K with benefits will be replaced by SkyWest pilots making only 55 to 70% as much (talking round numbers).

Eventually longevity will catch every airline and the destruction of our careers (no matter where you are at) will be the result. The only solution is to organize and establish scope which prevents our replacement.

There is a fundamental difference in the way a pilot looks at an airline and the way airlines view pilots. We pilots want to retire in the left seat of the biggest airplane 30 years from now while holding a good schedule. Airline management is focused on costs going into next quarter and see the senior pilots with vacation time, sick time and the benefits of senior bidding as over paid prima donnas that can be replaced by a new, enthusiastic, wet behind the ears flight school graduate for 50% of what they are paying now.

Comair's pilot group did everything the best they could for themselves - even to the point of betraying the ASA pilots - but it has not worked. Comair's concessionary bargaining did not work either. There are lessons to be learned here. Longevity makes more of a difference than contracts. Airline management will pick a few airlines to grow like weeds, then take them out by shifting flying to another new market entrant.

Why is Delta willing to walk away from a four Billion dollar investment? Because destroying longevity results in cost savings now. Instability and destruction saves money if the flying can be transferred to junior pilots.

The writing is on the wall for all successful airline subcontractors and the cycles will be violent. Grow like crazy for 5 to 7 years, then stagnate and die while management flows over to a new certificate and pilots start over from the bottom.

Brian LaBreque at ASA explained the cycle years ago and it is surely coming to pass.

That is exactly it....and very well-written.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ganja:

Thank you, Sir.

Individually we can't prevent this shift in flying. Pilot must decide which side of this battle you are on. That is where your vote for ALPA counts.

~~~^~~~

 

[airtime42]

The list from the bottom up. Only two levels, Good and Bad. The bad just feed off the work done by alpa one contract at a time. Maybe there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel but these scumbag carriers just mash it out with their weak minded pilot groups.

1. SkyWest, Mesa, $hitt-ta-qua, Ho-Jet ( all scumbags, scabs, toolsheds, whatever you want to call them)

2. Express Jet, Comair, Horizon, Air Wiskey, and mabe ASA we shall see how those guys fair, being married to that scumbag skywest group wont help them though. ( stand up carriers that try to raise the bar and make this a profession again only to be under bid by pos carriers in #1.) I'm sorry I almost forgot the group that paid the highest price for these crappy goups. INDY AIR (ACA a real class ACT).

What I think is funny is how every group in CATT one talks crap about Mesa, got news for you guys, you are no better.

 

[bender]

Your mom is calling you airtime. Make sure you get your geometry homework done tonight!

 

[COOPERVANE]

The word SCAB does not apply here! But I DO believe we need a new word for someone who refuses to join a union strictly for self benefit, and takes work from those that try to elevate the pay and work rules of the industry. How about SCRUBS?

Do I think Skywest pilots should refuse to fly Comair's airplanes? Of course not!! But they DID accept these aircraft by default when they accepted one rate. Pilots don't decide where airplanes go, or do they?

If ASA were to get these aircraft (not gonna happen) would I be HAPPY? No. Are you HAPPY when a senior pilot to you is fired? You benefitted, would you be happy about it? Same applies here.

Would I think of myself as a scab? No. I ALSO wouldn't be on this board rubbing it in the face of Comair like some Skywest pilots have.

ALPA is surely broken. The only way to start to fix it is for ALL regionals to be members. But Skywest pilots are just so darn happy to get more flying they won't vote it in.

 

[Lazy8]

Folks,

SkyWest would have received those planes/routes regardless if they were union or not. Union airlines have taken planes/routes from other union airlines in the past without anywhere near this much fuss. Mesa consistantly underbids everyone for flying... hmm they're ALPA right? Give me a break and get over your misdirected bull********************. It's not your flying and routes, it's the company's.

g

 

[dnkt]

I think it's great that the pilot's at Skywest don't want ALPA. They send a great message to the union by turning them down. Im in the union and I think it's a waste of my hard earned money. Keep up the work.

 

[bvt1151]

This is the first time aircraft (and more specifically jobs) from a union carrier are directly being transferred one-for-none to a non-union carrier, and ALPA sits on its arse as usual.

 

[voetsak]

I think it's great that the pilot's at Skywest don't want ALPA. They send a great message to the union by turning them down. Im in the union and I think it's a waste of my hard earned money. Keep up the work.

you got that exactly right. 10 years of my WASTED money...if it wasn't for prison time I'd go kick in their doors and get it back.

 

[SSDD]

Just read Ron Reber's post concerning the Comair flying. While he starts by saying that he doesn't know where the flying is going , he goes on to state that cost isn't the only factor, ASA may be better positioned, there are a lot more opportunities, etc., etc.,...basically getting the troops ready for the fact that the flying is going to ASA.

So you can pretty much bet on it.

 

[HelloNewman]

Skywest, while all the other regionals are getting hammered, do you think you will remain forever immune? and if not, do you think you will get support when you do....

It's your bed....

You have to live in the present Rez. you can't be sitting around worrying about what "could" happen all the time. You can drive yourself crazy if you do that. I am not paranoid, I am a logical person. I am living for the moment not what could happen.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Just read Ron Reber's post concerning the Comair flying. While he starts by saying that he doesn't know where the flying is going , he goes on to state that cost isn't the only factor, ASA may be better positioned, there are a lot more opportunities, etc., etc.,...basically getting the troops ready for the fact that the flying is going to ASA.

So you can pretty much bet on it.

He goes on to say that the RFP calls for 50 76 jets. So ASA might get the 900's also.

 

[SuperKooter]

Just read Ron Reber's post concerning the Comair flying. While he starts by saying that he doesn't know where the flying is going , he goes on to state that cost isn't the only factor, ASA may be better positioned, there are a lot more opportunities, etc., etc.,...basically getting the troops ready for the fact that the flying is going to ASA.

So you can pretty much bet on it.

He goes on to say that the RFP calls for 50 76 jets. So ASA might get the 900's also.

I wouldn't count on it. ASA is so deep in despair I'm surprised delta hasn't thrown them out of atlanta.

 

[ASARJMan]

I wouldn't count on it. ASA is so deep in despair I'm surprised delta hasn't thrown them out of atlanta.

Awww poor little SuperPoopy has a hard one for her ex-employer! You know nothing Poopy. Thought you were at CAL now? Why don't you go cry and whine on the major board. You must miss us huh. Loser!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Rogue5]

Scarlet,

You decry SkyWest's success solely on the ground that they are non-union company, yet in the past you have not only excused but celebrated GoJets because "at least they voted in a union."

I, for one, think you need to re-evaluate your priorities...

 

[bender]

Ron's statement implies that ASA is more likely to do the CVG flying. That's good news for them! Perhaps it also means they'll get a contract hammered out before Feb '07.