Skywest TA??? Pay??

[English]

Does anyone else think surplus1's responses are always too long, or am I just attention deficit?

 

[General Lee]

English,

I would have to say yes, but it does show that he has experience in this industry. I value his opinions, even though they ramble a bit. But, he probably thinks the same of me.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cappy]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Why does everyone seem to accept that mesa and other regional carriers who agree to fly for less than industry standard put undue pressure on the profession and the contracts of their competition, but when I point out the same effect at aai, luv, or jetblue, my comments are dismissed as the rantings of an "arrogant a-hole Delta pilot."

I fail to see the difference.

And yes, the race to the bottom is most certainly underway.

And it is a perfect opportunity for managements to use this Mesa induced fear tactic and scare us all imto concessions when we are all (regionals) making money! Think abut it...they need concessions because they are making money?

I could go on all night but have others things to do. I tell you this, in all the years I have been in this business I NEVER could have imagined what we are seeing now in ANY pilot group...especially an ALPA carrier.

 

[Pee_nuss]

Im personally voting yes. In the current state of affairs in the industry this contract isnt that bad. The term is 18 Mos. How many CRJ-700's do you think we will see on property in the next few months? I'd bet my right nut a max of 20 at the MOST rosy outlook. A very small group would be affected. Word on the street was that if we wanted a pay increase for the larger aircraft, they would want a hit on the 50 seat pay. However, looking at the paperwork, the 50 seat pay on the 70 seat aircraft would put us as the fourth highest pay among the regionals. I dont think we as skywest pilots are in a position in this economy to be fighting for a cutting edge contract.

The united deal is not done, just remember that boys, we could get the same amount of flying, we could get more, less or nothing at all even. Then it wouldnt matter what kind of 70 seat rates we had, we wouldnt have the aircraft, and most of us probably would be on the streets.

Its not like this is a American Eagle contract, the thing lasts till the end of 2005, we wont have the planes yet, and hey, if the economy rebounds, im the first one in favor of cutting edge rates, but until then, im just glad im not getting a pay cut.

Peace out

P Nuss

 

[roblawton]

The fact is that this TA maintains CURRENT pay scales for ALL pilots. I was going to say that the only concessions are on paper, since we have NO AIRCRAFT larger than 50 seats. But the fact is that SkyWest could impose any pay scale the company would like, not just on new jets but on all aircraft, so there really are no "concessions" at all, paper or otherwise. As usual, our management has chosen not to do that, but rather to ask the pilots' consensus. Our management has my greatest respect for that reason. I just hope that our pilots can reach a consensus that is reasonable.

IF we get some of those aircraft, THEN we can negotiate better pay scales for them in 18 months, IF the market will support better pay.

 

[hawkowl88]

vote no

roblawton,

What part of this don't you understand?

Vote yes=your pay stays the same

Vote no= your pay stays the same

Vote yes= we get bigger planes (whoopee $hit! batman!) your pay stays the same.

Oh we can renegotiate in 18 months for industry standard.

Oh crap!! I forgot we set the industry standard by ratifying this POS TA. Your pay continues to stay the same.

VOTE NO! & Vote often.

 

[Skyward]

Originally posted by Pee_nuss

Im personally voting yes.

The race to the bottom is in full swing!

 

[trip]

vote yes and we will be stuck with a 50 seat scale for the rest of our days at SKYW. In 18 months we will have a few 70 seaters but when we renegoiate our pay we might see a dollar or two raise if we are lucky. The 50 seat scale will stick like glue.

 

[Pee_nuss]

The race to the bottom is in full swing!

You and your buddies will be in line to join skyward!!!


If you even consider the rest of our "contract" the bottom you are sorely mistaken. So are you telling me what we have now is the bottom? Not much changes...


Plus maybe we will be at the bottom, but we have never furloughed.

 

[General Lee]

Pee_Nuss is obviously an FO with a narrow view of the situation--he wants that fast upgrade, regardless of the cost. I predicted that it might pass if all the FO's wanted quick upgrades and the junior Capts wanted better schedules and more domicile choices. Only the senior or mid level Capts would see the light. If this passes it will set the new standard and the other regionals will ask for it too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Pee_nuss]

As in my previous post general,

The likely hood of us getting more than 10 70 seat aircraft is unrealistic. For the 70 seat pay to increase, 50 seat pay will decrease. I just dont see that as a win win. Sure, the company made money last year, but remember that was on a insulated pay for departure basis. The money we made was on the backs of bankrupt carriers. The bubble will pop, and if the company can't compete, we may all be working for mesa in 18 months anyways.

Except for the few senior pilots who will be flying the 50 seat at a lower rate, because they want a higher scale for the 70's that never came to be. Just be careful guys, its a tough economy, and I honestly think that SAPA did the best they could. I think the next TA will be much worse.

 

[Skyward]

Not the rehash the whole thread, but agreeing to this TA would set a bad precedent. I’m surprised that anyone would agree to this without a fight. Nuss, you’re rolling over for no reason. SkyWest is making money, why on earth would you agree to a concretionary contract. By doing this you’re leading the way to the bottom, at least Mesa put up a small fight.

By the way; we may have guy on furlough, but when they come back it will be to a good contract. We're not participating in the race. Let me know who wins.

 

[skypine27]

"I think the next TA will be much worse"

Then vote NO to that one too. And if the one after that isn't good enough, vote NO again.

I'd much rather vote NO to the next 10 TA's SAPA comes up with then agree to this terrible one. It doesn't cost us 1 cent to vote NO. Let those SAPA guys actually "earn" their 105 hours of pay a month.

 

[AWACoff]

Does it really matter whether you vote "yes" or "no"? You don't have a union. Even if you had a union, I'm sure Skywest would roll over just like AWAC did (yeah). There are too many people running scared. As far as the statement about where would Mesa get aircraft from...there are plenty of airplanes already in United colors that they could pick up from carriers they would put out of business (Skywest, AWAC, ACA). It certainly wouldn't take 5 years to rub out a small name on the side and paint in Most Easily Suckered Airlinepilots.

 

[George Jetson]

Your union, and I'm not talking about the ACA group, I'm talking about ALPA, has a concessionary mindset right now. It is focused on the needs of the majors (like everything else in ALPA). If "the majors" have to take concessions, then of course YOU have to take concessionS too, because that is in "their" interest.

....

Whom do you think recommended to your MEC that concessions were a "good idea"? Any chance it was the same people that "recommended" the Mesa contract? Who "recommended" what happened at ALG/PSA/PDT? Who "recommended" the 16-year Eagle contract? Who is there in the road shows (besides ACA pilots) "recommending" that you should take the deal? Will they be affected by it?

...

Bottom line .... little by little we are all being led like lemmings down the primrose path to making more and more concessions to profitable companies, none of which have so far benefited one single regional pilot and none of which is likely to do so. Meanwhile we race merrily along undermining each other, giving up our seniority to furloughed mainline pilots, sabotaging the negotiations at ASA and COEX and CHQ and benefiting whom? Management ... and a "labor union" with little if any concern for the welfare of its second class members.

Mr. D (I mean Surplus),

While your messages are certainly well written and prophetic, I must say that I sense an enormous amount of paranoia in what you write, especially with respect to your opinions about Herndon. I mean no disrespect with what I am saying here, but everything that you write has to do with how ALPA is screwing over the regional pilots and how there is some Wizard of Oz who controls everything. Get over it dude. ALPA National deals with national issues and supplies each individual MEC's with resources and tools. You know that.

ALPA National is not forcing concessions down ACA's throats. Give me a break. ACA is dealing with their predicament on their own. ALPA National didn't suggest concessions. If ACA votes no and they don't lower their costs, then they will watch their UAL flying go to Mesa, etc. Ask the Bain Group about it. It's a horrible situation...and I am glad I don't have to vote on their TA.

Fortunately my airline is negotiating for increases (contrary to what you said above)...not being led down a path like lemmings, as you say. There is no harming of seniority as you say either...and our situation has nothing to do with ALPA. Both the FTA as well as the flying opportunities we've secured over at Commutair and Skywest for our furloughed pilots.

I'm sure you'll write a long drawn out esoteric email full of rhetoric lambasting me for supporting my MEC and ALPA National. I eagerly await it. In the meantime, I will support my fellow ACA pilots and friends and hope that they can maintain their status as UAX carrier. What a pickle they are in....it sucks.

GJ