SkyWest Staffing Problem

[jea]

And you think that the "guarantee" of a SAPA negotiated "agreement" with management is worth anything? WTF? Ummm, last time I checked, SAPA has done nothing for us!

Oh, yeah GO SAPA, GO SAPA! SAPA has so much REAL BARGINING POWER! They can go to JA, BH, and boys and tell them what to do. And, golly gee wizz they will just listen and do whatever SAPA says. Are u freaking kidding me!!!!

TALK ABOUT WRAPPING THINGS UP IN A BOX! Oh, We have Sked+ - yippee do da! Hmmm, they were kind of quick to get Sked+ up and running weren't they? Makes you kind of start to wonder why so they were so quick to put up the cute little posters and flyers up in crew lounges!

On the other hand, I did get a new lunchbox and a flight attendent binder for my already bound FOM. At a cost to the company that I would have rather seen in form of a decent pay proposal that would have made a difference in my life.

So, keeping on drinking the kool-aid.

Again to beat a dead horse.............

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE IS SAPA. MANAGEMENT HAS NO, I REPEAT NO, LEGAL OBLIGATION TO DO ANYTHING SAPA SAYS.

SAPA CAN "NEGOTIATE" AND "BARGIN" ALL THEY WANT. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT IS AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY!

SAPA HAS NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING TO NEGOTIATE WITH.

HOW CAN U NEGOTIATE WITH MANAGEMENT WHEN YOU ARE FUNDED BY MANAGEMENT, WHEN THERE IS NO LEGAL, BINDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES, WHEN MANAGEMENT CAN CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME AS WELL AS THE PLAYING FIELD AND YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RECOURSE!

THAT IS NOT NEGOTIATING OR BEING REPRESENTED!

AS YOU QUOTED EARLIER...."feel all warm and toasty inside." ISN'T THAT WHAT SAPA DOES BEST?

SAPA IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF "THE BOX OF CRA%"

agreed- I dont believe ive ever been a sapa cheerleader... they have less power than alpa... however- I believe any union other than alpa would represent us better.

 

[PCL_128]

however- I believe any union other than alpa would represent us better.

Any union other than ALPA wouldn't have the resources or experience to represent you properly.

 

[jea]

Jon,
I don't think I need to add anything!
Do the math?
PBR

Is it all about the money for you? All the money in the world isnt going to do a thing if your work life sucks... You know me? or you just did a bit of research? should i expect a warm box in my mailbox?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

agreed- I dont believe ive ever been a sapa cheerleader... they have less power than alpa... however- I believe any union other than alpa would represent us better.

If you had been here longer or made any attempt at getting informed, you would know that there have been efforts at several unions other than ALPA...none came to pass! Here's why: There are others that aren't SAPA cheerleaders that use the "any union other than ALPA" excuse not to vote for ALPA, but then there are always those that are against an inhouse union, and those against teamsters, and then the remaining group who are so apathetic they just can't be bothered to inform themselves about their own careers... and guess what we keep getting stuck with????? SAPA

 

[Andy Neill]

If you had been here longer or made any attempt at getting informed, you would know that there have been efforts at several unions other than ALPA...none came to pass! Here's why: There are others that aren't SAPA cheerleaders that use the "any union other than ALPA" excuse not to vote for ALPA, but then there are always those that are against an inhouse union, and those against teamsters, and then the remaining group who are so apathetic they just can't be bothered to inform themselves about their own careers... and guess what we keep getting stuck with????? SAPA

As I recall, on each of those votes, the ballot was constructed so that the voter could write in any union desired. If 50% + 1 had voted for union representation, the union receiving the most votes (even if less that 50% of the pilot population at SKYW) would have been brought in as the bargaining agent.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

As I recall, on each of those votes, the ballot was constructed so that the voter could write in any union desired. If 50% + 1 had voted for union representation, the union receiving the most votes (even if less that 50% of the pilot population at SKYW) would have been brought in as the bargaining agent.

That's true Andy...still goes back to individuals not wanting to take a chance voting for their choice(teamsters, ALPA, inhouse), since doing so they'd be taking a chance(as you mention above) of getting something other than their particular choice.

So when ALPA was on the ballot, if they wanted teamsters they wouldn't try to write in teamsters for fear that teamsters wouldn't get more votes by write in than ALPA which was on the ballot. Since they were against ALPA, didn't want to take that chance.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

threatening emails? I just checked- i must be off the threatening email list

They already know you are a kool-aid drinking follower. Don't worry, just keep on looking into the light!!! No need to work on you....

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Is it all about the money for you? All the money in the world isnt going to do a thing if your work life sucks... You know me? or you just did a bit of research? should i expect a warm box in my mailbox?

Yeah,
Money is important, QOL is more important, I was here while you were in JR High, trying to figger out why you wake up with a kickstand, in the morning. I don't know you, don't wanna know you, but I do know that the pilot group would be better off with out you on the senority list. You come on here and talk smack, trying to stir the $hit and parrot BH's dogma, guess what there are two sides to this job(yes, job, not career), and you have made your position clear. I will hope that on your next PC you get a sim instructor who is less than sympathetic to your dogma, hopefully a very senior guy who can't fund his impending retirement, or maybe a not as senior guy who couldn't get his first kids birthday off because of staffing issues, or maybe a guy who was gypped out of his App.D when he was flying the line, and thinks you are the problem, and just doesn't feel quite as charitable to the guy who just pi$$es him off. Enjoy that commute to STL after finishing that 16hr 4day, and commuting to and from the sim on your days off. I will just hope that your return from STL or wherever you have to go for sim is on a ticket as a passenger, and not a line pilot. You are boil on the a$$ of this profession(rapidly becomming a $hitty job).
Eat $hit and die
PBR

 

[jea]

Yeah,
Money is important, QOL is more important, I was here while you were in JR High, trying to figger out why you wake up with a kickstand, in the morning. I don't know you, don't wanna know you, but I do know that the pilot group would be better off with out you on the senority list. You come on here and talk smack, trying to stir the $hit and parrot BH's dogma, guess what there are two sides to this job(yes, job, not career), and you have made your position clear. I will hope that on your next PC you get a sim instructor who is less than sympathetic to your dogma, hopefully a very senior guy who can't fund his impending retirement, or maybe a not as senior guy who couldn't get his first kids birthday off because of staffing issues, or maybe a guy who was gypped out of his App.D when he was flying the line, and thinks you are the problem, and just doesn't feel quite as charitable to the guy who just pi$$es him off. Enjoy that commute to STL after finishing that 16hr 4day, and commuting to and from the sim on your days off. I will just hope that your return from STL or wherever you have to go for sim is on a ticket as a passenger, and not a line pilot. You are boil on the a$$ of this profession(rapidly becomming a $hitty job).
Eat $hit and die
PBR

do you need some asprin? you seem quite fussy...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

do you need some asprin? you seem quite fussy...

Naaah,
What I would love to see, is for you to fail upgrade and go back to your Radio Shack Asst. Mgr.(PM shift).
Eat $hit and choke on it!
PBR

 

[jea]

Naaah,
What I would love to see, is for you to fail upgrade and go back to your Radio Shack Asst. Mgr.(PM shift).
Eat $hit and choke on it!
PBR

I do prefer PM shifts... And I could get all the cool Ipod attachments to go with my Ipod and backpack.... hmmmm nahhhhh I'd rather buddy bid you

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I do prefer PM shifts... And I could get all the cool Ipod attachments to go with my Ipod and backpack.... hmmmm nahhhhh I'd rather buddy bid you

Good choice, don't forget to frost your tips. Buddy bid bad choice, quickest way back to Radio Shack. Again more poor choices, your decision making processes are suspect.
PBR

 

[jea]

Good choice, don't forget to frost your tips. Buddy bid bad choice, quickest way back to Radio Shack. Again more poor choices, your decision making processes are suspect.
PBR

I'd frost my tips but I'm balding.... And you'd fire me? wow you MUST be up there!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I'd frost my tips but I'm balding.... And you'd fire me? wow you MUST be up there!

Naaahaaa,
I wouldn't fire you, but I bet the company might have something to say about your outside flying though!
PBR
P.S. Read the SOP sometime, most "Professional Pilots" do once and awhile

 

[Morning Wood]

Well, the only thing I'm not happy with at SkyWest is the schedule. I'm sure I'm not the only one (speaking for the FOs)

What can we do about it? How can we light a fire under mgmt to staff this place?

Is it their M.O. to run it as lean as possible to boost margins?

Sked Plus isn't the anwer. The red arrows prove that.

SAPA isn't going to save us.

Is ALPA the answer? I was anti ALPA when I first came here, but I'm slightly on the pro side now. I came from an ALPA carrier if that matters.

If anyone here has experience w/ ALPA and thinks voting them in could improve my schedule, let me know here or PM me.

Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity. At least ALPA would be a change and a chance.

The reason for the recent short staffing is because of all the hiring by Jet Blue, Southwest, the people who have taken recalls at UA and DL, and the ones who have gotten hired by UA and DL. This isn't a new problem and it certainly isn't something that ALPA is going to come in and magically cure. If you think so, ask around and see what ALPA has done for staffing problems at UA, NW, and Mesa.

Oddly enough, back in the Summer of 2000 when UA ALPA was doing their thing to get a new contract, as soon as the contract was signed the staffing problems went away. Same with the recent cancellations at NW. Did more pilots suddenly show up? Of course not. As soon as mgt paid up, people starting picking up overtime and quit calling in sick.

P.S. What is this dropping trips for no pay BS? Are airlines supposed to staff for that kind of last minute stuff? Think people.

 

[jea]

Naaahaaa,
I wouldn't fire you, but I bet the company might have something to say about your outside flying though!
PBR
P.S. Read the SOP sometime, most "Professional Pilots" do once and awhile

I do my best to keep current on sop and all things related flying, however I am sure you can find something to get me on... Trust me- I know that side of the industry ha ha ha ha (inside joke- you'll be filled in soon I'm sure). I have nothing against you- I hope you are aware of that- other than the name calling- thats awesome.... We just have very different viewpoints... for our own reasons... Happy implosion....

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Love to chat gotta go fly.
BUHBY
PBR

 

[jea]

Love to chat gotta go fly.
BUHBY
PBR

ahhhhh man! now what am I going to do all day? Fly safe!!

 

[Bus-Driver]

Fighting for you and your quality of life, an ALPA card carrying member....(even serve as a commitee member)

USCTrojan, you pay union dues to ALPA? Well, thanks for lunch then. I really appreciate it, but I'm still voting no.

 

[SkyNation]

whoaa, watch out man! all I've ever said is that I don't support the union and USCschlong-sack has railed on me non-stop.

I never ate the free lunches, however.

 

[USCtrojan]

USCTrojan, you pay union dues to ALPA? Well, thanks for lunch then. I really appreciate it, but I'm still voting no.

Your choice, dude. You're welcome for raising the bar. Assuming this TA goes through, your QOL should go up. Good luck on that Deadhead pay issue. Count on Skynation AND Bus Driver NOT fighting for you.

Trojan

 

[USCtrojan]

whoaa, watch out man! all I've ever said is that I don't support the union and USCschlong-sack has railed on me non-stop.

I never ate the free lunches, however.

No such thing as a free lunch Skynation. Non-stop railing? I disagree with you Skynation, the quip about blowing Jerry? I was joking, sorry to hurt your feelings. Now go wipe your mouth and brush your teeth. I think Jerry's ready for round 2.

Trojan

 

[Soverytired]

If the arbitrator finds that the assignment was not in compliance with the agreement, then he will rule that the termination was without just cause and order the company to reinstate your employment with full back pay.

As an ALPA rep, I always told pilots to "fly it and grieve it" as official advice. However, in situations that I was personally dealing with scheduling about, I would tell them to stick it if they were trying to get me to fly an illegal assignment. .

What a refreshingly well thought out and cordial reply.

It's a different perspective; surely you'll admit though, that part of the reason that the "fly it and grieve it" response is used is because once fired, there are no guarantees. And arbitrator will PROBABLY rule in the pilots favor, but maybe not. Most pilots can't afford to take this risk.

I find it baffling that and expensive and hard fought for labor contract is never really "iron-clad."

 

[PCL_128]

What a refreshingly well thought out and cordial reply.

I have my moments.

It's a different perspective; surely you'll admit though, that part of the reason that the "fly it and grieve it" response is because once fired, there are no guarantees. And arbitrator will PROBABLY rule in the pilots favor, but maybe not. Most pilots can't afford to take this risk.

Agree 100%. This is why you'll always hear an ALPA rep tell a pilot to "fly it and grieve it." There are no guarantees in arbitration. Ask the AAA pilots about that little nugget of wisdom. Arbitration is always at least a small gamble, no matter how well you've assembled your case, and how much of a slam-dunk you think it is. It's up to each pilot to pick and choose his battles, and decide whether the risk is worth it to him.

I find it baffling that and expensive and hard fought for labor contract is never really "iron-clad."

Agreed. The system was designed to keep things moving. The RLA's purpose was always to keep transportation systems moving as best possible while still settling disputes in an organized manner. Hence the system board, arbitration, major disputes, and so on. Unfortunately, that means that management usually has the upper hand. A reworking of the RLA, or a complete replacement, is definitely in order, but we don't have the political power for that right now. Hopefully someday we'll be able to make progress on leveling the playing field. Until then, we play the game as best we can.

 

[Soverytired]

ALPA does work at Mesa. Had it not been for ALPA, your job would have been outsourced to Freedumb a long time ago. ALPA had to spend negotiating capital to protect your job with scope, and the other sections of the agreement had to suffer to "buy" that scope language.

Maybe. Maybe not. Frankly, I think the Freedom "threat" could have been handled in so many better ways. The single carrier petition could have been played out. Or it could have been a rallying point to galvanize the pilots to a strike (and 50 Freedom pilots were not going to replace 1200 Mesa ones). And so forth.

It's a terrible example anyway, because ultimately, Mesa pilots took a concessionary contract at a profitable company and were told "Like it, because it's the best we can do. We can't help it if were were outsmarted and outmaneuvered."

If that's the best ALPA has to offer . . . well, why should Mesa pilots think they're not going to get outmaneuvered AGAIN every 5-7 years?

The blame for this rests with the current bankruptcy laws. The 1113(c) bankruptcy process is heavily weighted in favor of management, and there are no protections for employee pension plans. There simply wasn't enough negotiating leverage to keep the pensions during concessionary bargaining.

Doing so would be a waste of negotiating capital. The pensions would simply be at risk again the next time an airline files for Chapter 11.

The ultimate responsibility of pension loss lays not on ALPA but on BK laws is absolutely correct. However, how can you say that bargaining for them back is a waste of neg capital? Certainly those who saw their pensions drop to nothing would disagree. It WOULD be a waste to current pilots, and certainly to ALPA's coffers and hundreds of guys making +$100k ALPA salaries . . .but what's more important?

Those who worked for decades and contributed millions but now have no voice or ability to ply their trade? Or current pilots who can easily say "tsk tsk, what a shame" then bargain for raises?

Personally, I think ALPA has a moral imperative to recapture at least SOME of what was owed to the retirees. Clearly, we disagree.

At least we've disagreed civilly. A flightinfo first!