Skywest Lawsuit - Pilot wins!

[Soverytired]

ATRDRIVER,

This story seems to make the case against ALPA. The pilot sued and won. Don't get me wrong, I'm an ALPA supporter, but if you're going to imply, albeit sarcastically, that Skywest doesn't need a union, then how would ALPA have handled it differently?

I agree. It is true that he had to pay his lawyer all up front, instead of 2% of his annual gross Skywest salary for 16 years. I wonder which would ultimately be cheaper?

I think this whole "all-dem non-ALPA carriers love to make you fly fatigued" is a red herring.

Your company manual is usually more restrictive than the FAR's, has the weight of FAR's, and pretty much all have the same boilerplate about not flying fatigued.

 

[Redeyes]

After almost 10 years at SkyWest all I can say is you have to be careful when you call in fatigued. The few times I did it I got mixed results. Twice I was chewed out and twice nothning happened. The guy that chewed me out twice was Robin Walls. He is a piece of work, so stay away from him. Both times my chief pilot backed me though.

I once read on the SAPA site a post from the current SAPA pres. that he suggests that you just call in sick instead of fatigued. From my experience this is probably a better option when Robin Walls is the MOD.

 

[Cardinal]

Your company manual is usually more restrictive than the FAR's, has the weight of FAR's, and pretty much all have the same boilerplate about not flying fatigued.

So when the company fires you anyway (which they will, and did,) then what? Are you going to call your POI and have him go to bat for you? Now that is playing with fire.

Representation gives you the ability to make safety critical decisions for you and your innocent passengers without undue fear of reprisal. It has saved untold thousands from a fiery end.

 

[PCL_128]

ATRDRIVER,

This story seems to make the case against ALPA. The pilot sued and won. Don't get me wrong, I'm an ALPA supporter, but if you're going to imply, albeit sarcastically, that Skywest doesn't need a union, then how would ALPA have handled it differently?

Two things:

1. This termination never would have happened at an ALPA carrier in the first place. Even Pinnacle, an airline well known for its wrongful terminations, would never discipline a pilot for calling in fatigued. They know full well that we'd have had the FAA going through the place with a fine-tooth comb. I told pilots not to even follow the company policy about submitting a crew comm when calling in fatigued. The company is owed no explanation other than the words "I'm fatigued."

2. Hypothetically, if an ALPA carrier were dumb enough to terminate a pilot for calling in fatigued, then the case would go to grievance at ALPA's expense instead of the pilot having to find a spare $100k sitting around to pay an attorney for a multi-year legal battle in civil court. In many cases, ALPA settles termination cases without even having to go to arbitration. The pilots get their jobs back in a matter of weeks, instead of spending years fighting it in court. Remember the Memphis Three from a couple of years ago at Pinnacle? Those guys got their jobs back in a few weeks, and it would have taken them a couple of years if they'd fought it in civil court.

 

[Poahi]

I don't know of an airline that fires pilots for fatigue, but I do know of airlines that try to intimidate the pilot group for fatigue calls by firing pilots for other reasons. That's what happened in this case. Pinnacle has done it before, especially with probationary pilots (not protected by ALPA and non probationary pilots as well). They target the pilot and start building a case against them. Sooner or later it comes to a head, but I don't think ALPA carriers are immune to this problem.

 

[XPOO]

Don't you find it funny how this "judgement" comes out just as the SkyWest pilots are in the middle of a union vote? I mean, come on, it's fairly obvious this is a total ALPA ploy to get you to vote pro-union. How many times will the SkyWest pilots give ALPA an ace (in the form of a purple plywood board) until they wise up. Don't give in to the ALPA spin!

 

[Skywest Pylot]

How many times will the SkyWest pilots give ALPA an ace (in the form of a purple plywood board) until they wise up.

I already gave up my ace to the company and have regretted it ever since.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Don't you find it funny how this "judgement" comes out just as the SkyWest pilots are in the middle of a union vote? I mean, come on, it's fairly obvious this is a total ALPA ploy to get you to vote pro-union. How many times will the SkyWest pilots give ALPA an ace (in the form of a purple plywood board) until they wise up. Don't give in to the ALPA spin!

How do you put someone on the ignore list?
SO far, nobody is on that list on this board, this will be a first, and well deserved!

 

[yellowfever]

I agree. It is true that he had to pay his lawyer all up front, instead of 2% of his annual gross Skywest salary for 16 years. I wonder which would ultimately be cheaper?

2 percent of his annual income would be far cheaper than lawyer fees he has accrued.

 

[Soverytired]

2 percent of his annual income would be far cheaper than lawyer fees he has accrued.

If true, than I would agree that on a cost-basis alone, a union provided attorney would have been a better choice.

Of course, there are numerous pilots out there who would rather just take the chance that they don't need a lawyer anytime soon, and would rather not pay that 2% of their lifetime earnings.

If they're wrong, they'll have to pay out of pocket, of course. But they're adults, and supposedly freemen, so they should have that choice to make, right?

Not so in a closed shop, I'm afraid. You gonna pay, cuz' the beast must be fed.

 

[XPOO]

Geez, I can't even joke with people, and yes, the winky-face emoticon is there to represent intended sarcasm. I just took a similar post from a Union Supporter and swapped ALPA and SkyWest to show the humor in it.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Everyone is failing to realize that Don was NOT really fired for the fatigue call. He was fired because he stood up to that POS Tony Fizer. Skywest just needed to build a case on facts to back up Fizer's personal issue with Don. How professional is Fizer? I heard he has fired quite a few for personal reasons. Geez you guys need some representation on that property.

P.S. Fizer has been badgering several DAL employees for an interview for the past bunch of months. Most I have run into won't help him out, the others have actually "blacklisted" him. Do you think he knew the S*&T was gonna hit the fan in this case? Hmmm...

Yogi

After almost 10 years at SkyWest all I can say is you have to be careful when you call in fatigued. The few times I did it I got mixed results. Twice I was chewed out and twice nothning happened. The guy that chewed me out twice was Robin Walls. He is a piece of work, so stay away from him. Both times my chief pilot backed me though.

I once read on the SAPA site a post from the current SAPA pres. that he suggests that you just call in sick instead of fatigued. From my experience this is probably a better option when Robin Walls is the MOD.

 

[yellowfever]

If true, than I would agree that on a cost-basis alone, a union provided attorney would have been a better choice.

It is true!

 

[timetoquit]

Anyone know what happens to the ones that are wrongfully terminated? Do any of them get hired at any other airline and do other airlines realize the terminations are suspect?

 

[NJAPLT]

Anyone know what happens to the ones that are wrongfully terminated? Do any of them get hired at any other airline and do other airlines realize the terminations are suspect?

I would imagine some do know and some do not, one of the issues I have when I relate stories about Great Lakes is that some people don't believe that any airline could be that bad, or make those kind of decisions.

Years ago I jumpseated up front on United, the captain refused to believe that an airplane was legal to fly an ILS without an autopilot installed.