SkyWest flying out of ATL in Dec.

[flylowman]

Well of course SkyW will be flying 900's out of ATL in Dec. Duh!

You're all welcome to come to my crew lounge. If I'm in there, I'll make a pot of coffee and show you around.

Thats the way Comair treated me and my crew when we went into CVG and thats how I and most ASA crews will treat you guy's when you come to ATL. If someone acts like an A S S, just pitty them for the misserable POS they are and be glad you're not them.


I think this is the first time I have agreed with Ohplease. Just be prepared to hold, wait for parking, and sorry a$$ ground support. Other than that you should be greeted kindly. We are all in this together. Good luck guys.

 

[AutoTransfer]

The petty disdain held for Skywest pilots is for sure in the vast minority of ASA pilots. Most thinking ASA pilots realize how important it is for us to work together with Skywest pilots to achieve unity. Our primary concern is whether or not the majority of Skywest pilots feel the same way. The ALPA drive currently in effect at Skywest will tell the rest of this story.

If you experience any of the immature antics of a small minority of our pilots in ATL, I apologize in advance. That’s why our CNC and MEC represent the majority of our pilots. I want you guys to stop over so that we can talk about how we can proceed forward in our struggle. We are owned by the same company now so even thought it may not seem so, our struggle is your struggle.

Best of luck to us both,
AT

 

[Silent Partner]

"Atlanta, the city too busy to hate (unlesss the other person is a different color than you)"

I don't get it?

 

[79%N1]

The reason some feel "petty disdain" for Skywest pilots is not because they will fly through ATL, but that the feeling is they don't want to achieve unity with ASA pilots. They want nothing to do with 'unity' because they want to protect their schedules and fast upgrades from the relatively more senior ASA pilots. This is perhaps the most selfish and shortsighted stance imaginable. Here's why. What is coming next down the road? Imagine in a few years when the next spurt of growth, new airplane or codeshare comes along. What does Skywest management do? Come to both groups with "whichever group agrees to fly these for less, or take paycuts.......can have this flying. So, down comes the bar again as we each try to undercut each other to secure this new flying. Eroding our profession yet again. This is why Skywest management is keeping us separate. It's just looking great for the Skywest guys now, because they are reaping all the current benefits and rewards from it. This is going to happen again and again until we put a stop to it! When is the time to do it?

 

[jjlaw1]

I would much rather see SKW pilots than CHQ Freedom or Shuttle America in there.

 

[AutoTransfer]

79%,

While I agree that there is trepidation on the part of ASA pilots as to whether the Skywest pilots share our vision of unity (as I mentioned in my previous post). I believe we should give the Skywest pilots a chance to demonstrate their intentions before we admonish them. Thus far, the SKYW pilots don't have the representational ability to demonstrate their stance to us. The current ALPA drive will show us where they stand. Until then, I would like nothing better than to have a cup o' Joe with any SKYW pilot that slogs their way through the well-oiled machine that is the ATL.

Your description of the ensuing whipsaw that will occur should the SKYW pilots not organize is spot on. I just hope for all involved that this message is heard loud and clear.

AT

 

[SkyNation]

The reason some feel "petty disdain" for Skywest pilots is not because they will fly through ATL, but that the feeling is they don't want to achieve unity with ASA pilots.

Not at all. Many of us balk, however, at the idea that this 'unity' MUST be attained through ALPA. Many of us have come from ALPA carriers, and know that we have it better having left it behind.

They want nothing to do with 'unity' because they want to protect their schedules and fast upgrades from the relatively more senior ASA pilots.

Are you saying that we should want for crappier schedules and longer upgrades so that we can please the 'relatively' more senior guys at ASA?

This is perhaps the most selfish and shortsighted stance imaginable. Here's why. What is coming next down the road? Imagine in a few years when the next spurt of growth, new airplane or codeshare comes along. What does Skywest management do? Come to both groups with "whichever group agrees to fly these for less, or take paycuts.......can have this flying. So, down comes the bar again as we each try to undercut each other to secure this new flying. Eroding our profession yet again. This is why Skywest management is keeping us separate. It's just looking great for the Skywest guys now, because they are reaping all the current benefits and rewards from it. This is going to happen again and again until we put a stop to it! When is the time to do it?

Guessing at what will happen 'down the road' is just that, a guess. Taking into account our 34 years of how things really have played out is another matter.

Direct your anger where it belongs, not at us. Our company only bought your company a year ago. Who did you blame for all this before then?

Look, I hope you guys get what you're after, I really do. For the record, I never wanted to see the purchase of ASA come to pass, I want nothing to do with any flying East of DEN, and even though I could have upgraded by now I won't for some time.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I would much rather see SKW pilots than CHQ Freedom or Shuttle America in there.

another example of a pilot who doesnt get it!

from the what the ASA guys/gals are saying in this thread, it doesn't sound like much of a crewroom anyways. BUT, if I do decide to go in there, I'll look for ya.

 

[AutoTransfer]

SkyNation,

You may have answered this question before on this matter, but how does Jerry breaking his promise to you of a 70-seat rate sits with you and do you feel the majority of the pilot group there feels the way that you do? I am not trying in any way to be inflammatory. I'm just trying to get a feel of the mood of the pilots over there.

As a follow up, do you feel that the SKYW pilots bear any responsibility to the profession at large or that the ends of good schedules and quick upgrades justify the means of forfeiting representational organization?


Thanks in advance for your opinions,
AT

 

[SkyNation]

SkyNation,

You may have answered this question before on this matter, but how does Jerry breaking his promise to you of a 70-seat rate sits with you and do you feel the majority of the pilot group there feels the way that you do. I am not trying in any way to be inflammatory. I'm just trying to get a feel of the mood of the pilots over there.

As a follow up, do you feel that the SKYW pilots bear any responsibility to the profession at large or that the ends of good schedules and quick upgrades justify the means of forfeiting representational organization?


Thanks in advance for your opinions,
AT

not inflammatory, but sufficiently loaded questions. you are a fan of ALPA. I am not. Bear that in mind as I reply.

Jerry never promised us a raise. Ron Reber, then 2nd in command, told pilots it would be 'worth it.' You can read into that whatever you want. I don't defend them allowing the 18 month TA to expire, and I think we should get paid more for the variants. I believe we will vote on a proposal from mngmt. within a few weeks that will address just that. My guess is it will be a percentage override when you fly the 70/90. Back to 'worth it.' I have friends who were FOs at the time of the TA, three in particular. One is now at CAL, one is at FedEx, one is at SWA. For each of them, it was well 'worth it' to upgrade and move on. They are achieving their career goals and I congratulate them. It is a fantasy to suggest that if we all 'stuck together' and refused such things at any carrier that management would come back and say 'gosh, you guys are right. we're going to open up the coffers and load you guys up with dough.' I see no evidence of that thanks to ALPA or anyone else. Instead what I see is a wasteland of furloughs, paycuts/freezes, and companies struggling to remain even part of the game. ALPA didn't cause these calamities, but it sure as hell didn't prevent them either.

The burden we bear towards the profession is the same one you do. Keep it safe, make it the best you can. what are your priorities? how do you prioritize your well being, your families, your companies, that of other companies, etc? do you really think that if we were to vote in ALPA that suddenly you'd make more $, have a better QOL, better future opportunities, etc?

I'm expecting all the same responses. Been there, done that, got the stickers and the lanyard.

again, I wish you guys the best. if you immediately disregard us if we're not ALPA, then this discussion has nowhere to go.

 

[Socalplt]

SkyNation,

You may have answered this question before on this matter, but how does Jerry breaking his promise to you of a 70-seat rate sits with you ...

Jerry, hasn't broken a promise here. Management never said we would ever get paid a higher rate on the 700. They only said we wouldn't be sorry. The pro management members of SAPA implied we would have a higher rate after the 18 months were up.

Management doesn't understand why we complain when you consider that the most junior pilot on the seniority list back in June of 03 (when the payscale was voted on) is now an RJ captain with another 1000 pilots below him. When we say we want a payraise, they say you already received one when you upgraded/transitioned, etc.

 

[Skaff]

The reason some feel "petty disdain" for Skywest pilots is not because they will fly through ATL, but that the feeling is they don't want to achieve unity with ASA pilots.

I would like nothing more that to have Skywest pilots be a unified group. I have no interest in us being unified with you. You are a different company than us. I had no interest in Skywest Inc buying you guys. Is Comair unified with Delta...No. Is Chitaqua unified with Trans States. No. Is Eagle unified with American...No. Should Skywest be unified, yes. Should Skywest unify with ASA, not nessisarily.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Who doesn't get it?????

another example of a pilot who doesnt get it!

Unfortunately, you don't get it. It's not about DAL saving money. It's about the fiasco caused almost every day by your company and MESA in ATL.

All of you Wigwamrepublishuttle dorks are a bunch of kids with no experience or common sense, regardless of position. The Windbreaker boys are in the same boat as you guys. Why do you think you were all moved off of Concourse C? Yeh, yeh....."my baby 737 with auto throttles needs a jet way ashhole". Not what I'm talking about. With all of the maintenance issues, crew issues, load issues, stupid issues, etc., you were a waste of time for us on Concourse C. Oh yeh, we have our own problems, but didn't need yours on top of ours to complicate things more.

To make things worse, most of you can't even listen to instructions or execute them properly when given to you by ground controllers in ATL. It hasn't become the world's busiest airport in both passenger activities and aircraft activities on it's own. If you come here, you need to listen and do what you're told. Want some examples??? No problem:

1.) A few days ago, ATL had weather issues. Unfortunately, that means launching off of 27L and landing on 27R because some overpaid engineer couldn't measure 50 feet properly. Anyway, long taxiouts for departure. While waiting to cross 27R to launch off of 27L, I watched a BA777 land on 27R, and he had his reversers deployed well before taxiway Dixie, and was off on the first highspeed. Along comes one of your mighty E-170's. Tower asked them to plan on the first available turnoff for departing heavy traffic on the same runway. This request was acknowledged as "no problem". The "professional" floated forever, and didn't get off until the very end. The Lufthansa heavy was in position. This caused an MD-88 to go around, followed by a CR7. This also stopped all departures off of 27L, because of the go around traffic. An additional 10 minute departure delay (added onto the already 40 for taxiout) due to a dorkboy who couldn't land an aircraft.

2.) With the construction on the North side, most arrivals are on the South side. Tower will usually cross traffic over 27R/9L with the request of "Call sign only, unless you have a question." One of your jungle dorks are number 3 to cross, and a DL767 just took off. The first person responds with call sign only, as well as the 2nd. Dork boy answers the entire readback. This stops the tower from crossing an additional 3 aircraft, due to time, as the tower states this. When transfering to ground, said dork boy turns the wrong way, onto the wrong taxiway, and has a Mexican Standoff with a DL757, which blocks the taxiway and ramp area for close to 10 minutes until ground can get things moved around enough to allow them to clear each other.

Such situations with you clowns don't only occur in ATL, either. I've seen too many situations with you immature dorks in too many cities. Need more than 2? PM me and I'll feed you my file.

At least we can expect the Skywest men and women to act professionally and do their jobs accordingly, as we did in SLC. Everyone has issues, but there are way too many with you clowns. It's more about age and maturity than with anything else.

BTW, it's spelled "doesn't", not "doesnt", which is short for "does not". Like I said, it's a maturity thing.


LTG

 

[AutoTransfer]

SkyNation,

You will find that I am probably more open minded than most of the hardcore ALPA supporters on this board. You might also find that I will likely not give the same ol' rally cry responses as most. My goal is to ascertain the truth; the truth of the mood at SKYW, and the truth behind the promises made by management and by our representation, whether it be SAPA or ALPA.

You are absolutely correct that I loaded my questions and I did so in order to ascertain how you would respond. With regard to my first question, your response was that you will probably be voting for a variant raise soon (possibly an override). Do you believe that you would have that option if there was not an ongoing ALPA drive on property? I have a hard time believing that the company would be so generous without a reason. If Skywest, inc. is so generous, why has that generosity not been shown to the groups at ASA. Again, this is not a personal attack on the Skywest pilots; it’s just a question I have to ask with regard to the raise.

In response to my first question, you also spoke of your friends that have upgraded and moved on. I congratulate them as well, but this further supports my personal hypothesis that the individual gain is more important at SKYW than collective gain. I'm not convicting you of any crime because this mode of thought has been demonstrated among many pilot groups in the recent past (major and regional). Again, I’m just trying to ascertain the mood.

As our management is so fond of saying: safety, proficiency and security are a given in this industry. My question regarding upholding the profession refers to the quality of life and working conditions endured in this sector of it. I admit the Skywest pilots are doing well now, but as more and more groups fail because of lack of unity, the number of chairs at the table will decrease. When the music stops, I hope your group will not be left standing. Mine will more than likely be long gone by then anyway. I’m not trying to use scare tactics on anyone. That’s just my opinion.

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.
AT

 

[Speedtape]

As far as the ASA crew lounge thing, no worries, Skywest will have their on crew lounge in ATL. You will never see a Skywest pilot in the ASA crew lounge in ATL.

Most likely, they will be parking on A or B, not C!

 

[AutoTransfer]

Also, thanks for clearing up my misconception regarding the promised pay raise. I understand now that Management said it would be worth it. So far for the Skywest pilots, it seems to have worked out.

AT

 

[AutoTransfer]

I would like nothing more that to have Skywest pilots be a unified group. I have no interest in us being unified with you. You are a different company than us. I had no interest in Skywest Inc buying you guys. Is Comair unified with Delta...No. Is Chitaqua unified with Trans States. No. Is Eagle unified with American...No. Should Skywest be unified, yes. Should Skywest unify with ASA, not nessisarily.

Skaff,
My definition of unity with the ASA pilots is not synonymous with integration. I refer to unity in representation and negotiation. I truly don't care if you organize under ALPA, some other representational organization or even your own personal group (ALA IPA at UPS). My concern is that until you are represented by someone (other than SAPA) both of our groups are in jeopardy of the management whipsaw (mine currently, perhaps yours later).

I think the reason ALPA is touted as your savior by many on this board is in the event there is a merger, you may be better represented with a merge if you are organized under the same labor union. The pilot group at large there will have to decide if this potentiality is worth endorsing ALPA.

The Skywest pilots' decision to organize, ALPA or otherwise, will send a decisive message to ASA pilots as to the support we will receive from them.
The ASA pilots will have some tough decisions to make then, whether they should stay the course of negotiations or adjust their strategy. I don't say this as a scare tactic either, just the truth of the matter as I see it.

AT

 

[jjlaw1]

I am glad that I live in a country that allows one to express his opinion!

 

[ohplease!]

Unfortunately, you don't get it. It's not about DAL saving money. It's about the fiasco caused almost every day by your company and MESA in ATL.

All of you Wigwamrepublishuttle dorks are a bunch of kids with no experience or common sense, regardless of position. The Windbreaker boys are in the same boat as you guys. Why do you think you were all moved off of Concourse C? Yeh, yeh....."my baby 737 with auto throttles needs a jet way ashhole". Not what I'm talking about. With all of the maintenance issues, crew issues, load issues, stupid issues, etc., you were a waste of time for us on Concourse C. Oh yeh, we have our own problems, but didn't need yours on top of ours to complicate things more.

To make things worse, most of you can't even listen to instructions or execute them properly when given to you by ground controllers in ATL. It hasn't become the world's busiest airport in both passenger activities and aircraft activities on it's own. If you come here, you need to listen and do what you're told. Want some examples??? No problem:

1.) A few days ago, ATL had weather issues. Unfortunately, that means launching off of 27L and landing on 27R because some overpaid engineer couldn't measure 50 feet properly. Anyway, long taxiouts for departure. While waiting to cross 27R to launch off of 27L, I watched a BA777 land on 27R, and he had his reversers deployed well before taxiway Dixie, and was off on the first highspeed. Along comes one of your mighty E-170's. Tower asked them to plan on the first available turnoff for departing heavy traffic on the same runway. This request was acknowledged as "no problem". The "professional" floated forever, and didn't get off until the very end. The Lufthansa heavy was in position. This caused an MD-88 to go around, followed by a CR7. This also stopped all departures off of 27L, because of the go around traffic. An additional 10 minute departure delay (added onto the already 40 for taxiout) due to a dorkboy who couldn't land an aircraft.

2.) With the construction on the North side, most arrivals are on the South side. Tower will usually cross traffic over 27R/9L with the request of "Call sign only, unless you have a question." One of your jungle dorks are number 3 to cross, and a DL767 just took off. The first person responds with call sign only, as well as the 2nd. Dork boy answers the entire readback. This stops the tower from crossing an additional 3 aircraft, due to time, as the tower states this. When transfering to ground, said dork boy turns the wrong way, onto the wrong taxiway, and has a Mexican Standoff with a DL757, which blocks the taxiway and ramp area for close to 10 minutes until ground can get things moved around enough to allow them to clear each other.

Such situations with you clowns don't only occur in ATL, either. I've seen too many situations with you immature dorks in too many cities. Need more than 2? PM me and I'll feed you my file.

At least we can expect the Skywest men and women to act professionally and do their jobs accordingly, as we did in SLC. Everyone has issues, but there are way too many with you clowns. It's more about age and maturity than with anything else.

BTW, it's spelled "doesn't", not "doesnt", which is short for "does not". Like I said, it's a maturity thing.


LTG

not to defend anyone here but, I've witnessed DAL, AA, ASA and Comair do pretty much the same thing. That being said, I've never seen ANY OTHER CARRIER foul up a ramp like those to remain nameless ( erj's in DAL colors off ramp 4 & 5 ). Talk about not paying attention, working in the system, reading the 10-10/10-9 pages. What would EVER give ANYONE the idea to come to the end of the ramp, stop in the MIDDLE of the ramp opening and then take an extraordinarily long amount of time to call ground for clearance? Not to mention the many other silly things I've watched their crews do.

 

[SkyNation]

AutoTransfer,

thanks for being a level headed fellow. I'm confident most guys at ASA are like you in that regard. You'll also find that most guys here at SkyWest are as well. In super general, boiled down terms, I think the consensus attitude you'll find here is 'we seem to have better than anyone else, why should we be in such a hurry to change?' I have also heard comments, however, to the effect of 'those ASA guys hate us. I'm not going anywhere near their crewroom.'

as an aside, would you accept a carbon copy of our working agreement at ASA? I know this hasn't been offered, but if it was, would you take it?