Skywest/ExpressJet plan

[Mickey Mouse]

Far from negotiated. They were arbitrated rates. We of course, had no say or input. They're pretty easy to remember.....

Terms and Conditions
1. Compensation
a. Current EMB-145 pay tables will be applied to any 41-50 seat aircraft.
b. New pay tables for 51-90 seat aircraft with rates $2 higher than EMB-145 pay tables.

Thanks

 

[JustaNumber]

New flying should go to XJT. We are less expensive to operate. Granted, SKYW did inherit all the crappy contracts from LXJT and also some from LASA when it bought both of them, but they would be wise to award new flying to XJT because we cost less to operate. It's all in the financial report. Toward the bottom, it breaks down costs per airline.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com...7379-72825&type=sect&dcn=0001104659-13-082092

The ALPA guys are specifically claiming that the pilot group costs at SkyW are lower than XJT, both in current contracts and comparing the two TAs. I don't have access to all the financial analysis experts they do, but either someone is lying, or our higher labor costs are offset by some other lower costs in another department in order to make our total costs lower than SkyWest's.

 

[Freebrd]

Relax, guys and gals. Let's remember something very important. This TA vote was not about the XJT pilot group holding out for more. It was about the XJT pilot group merely holding-on to what it has. .

Bingo! Exactly correct. Granted that would make it difficult to combine us due to XJT having higher costs & different benefits, but then the Co didn't do that. The TA had different items in the TA for each pilot group.

 

[XPOO]

SkyWest has a higher operating expense due to the amount of at-risk flying it does. When you are buying your own fuel, costs go up.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

The same section of the 10Q shows that SkyWest has operating revenues of 1,479,708 compared to SkyEasts 1,235,877, yet the majority of the flying is done by SkyEast.

The at risk flying is the key difference. It also represents the future of the regional industry. The capacity purchase agreement model is dying. Profits are getting squeezed to nothing and the legacy carriers will continue to play one regional against another to continue to lower costs. Soon it will hit bottom, if it hasn't already, and a transition will have to be made to at risk flying. Delta and United buying the airframes is an attempt to keep it going a little longer, but the end is near. The company with an established at risk flying base, a large number of larger planes and a billion in the bank will survive. Those who are totally dependent on CPAs will fade away.

LExpressjet will likely see shrinkage as the ERJ's leases expire and contracts aren't renewed.

I don't know what leverage you think you have, but if this time 83% voted no, next time there will be fewer of you and the process will repeat until all of the ERJ's are gone.

If you only plan a short stay before moving on then I guess it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't expect any additional flying until you have a joint contract and the merger is complete.

Perhaps someday East and West will be merged, that won't happen until Your merger is complete and costs are brought into line.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Peace.

 

[BoilerUP]

The leverage is manpower management...

 

[Jon Rivoli]

The leverage is manpower management...

Could you please explain what you mean by this. I don't see how the pilot group has any practical control over this.

 

[BoilerUP]

Could you please explain what you mean by this. I don't see how the pilot group has any practical control over this.

Manpower management has two primary parts: employee recruitment, and employee retention.

If the company cannot properly staff through recruitment (agreed, not really influenced by the pilot group), retention of existing employees becomes critical. While you can't hope to retain everybody, you need to retain enough to maintain existing operations, to say nothing of growth. And you have to give those employees an incentive to stay in order to retain them, principally financial incentives but also possibly intangible (quality of life/lack of BS).

A combination of recruiting falling short and retention breaking down can put the company into a position where it has no choice but to reduce operations due to a lack of staff.

So to the point:

Lifers and company men won't "save" XJT. Without a contract that is "good enough" to keep FOs for bailing for the prospect of a fast upgrade elsewhere and keep those 10-12 year guys that don't want to take a 5 year earnings hit but are concerned about the company as a going concern and further degradation to their W2s and QOL...the inevitable will catch up.

I have never been a "great pilot shortage" proponent, but the most basic of Econ 101 is starting to take effect and you can see it in hiring at SKW or Horizon vs, say, Endeavor.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Manpower management has two primary parts: employee recruitment, and employee retention.

If the company cannot properly staff through recruitment (agreed, not really influenced by the pilot group), retention of existing employees becomes critical. While you can't hope to retain everybody, you need to retain enough to maintain existing operations, to say nothing of growth. And you have to give those employees an incentive to stay in order to retain them, principally financial incentives but also possibly intangible (quality of life/lack of BS).

A combination of recruiting falling short and retention breaking down can put the company into a position where it has no choice but to reduce operations due to a lack of staff.

So to the point:

Lifers and company men won't "save" XJT. Without a contract that is "good enough" to keep FOs for bailing for the prospect of a fast upgrade elsewhere and keep those 10-12 year guys that don't want to take a 5 year earnings hit but are concerned about the company as a going concern and further degradation to their W2s and QOL...the inevitable will catch up.

I have never been a "great pilot shortage" proponent, but the most basic of Econ 101 is starting to take effect and you can see it in hiring at SKW or Horizon vs, say, Endeavor.

Thank you. That is a very concise answer.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

The same section of the 10Q shows that SkyWest has operating revenues of 1,479,708 compared to SkyEasts 1,235,877, yet the majority of the flying is done by SkyEast.

The at risk flying is the key difference. It also represents the future of the regional industry. The capacity purchase agreement model is dying. Profits are getting squeezed to nothing and the legacy carriers will continue to play one regional against another to continue to lower costs. Soon it will hit bottom, if it hasn't already, and a transition will have to be made to at risk flying. Delta and United buying the airframes is an attempt to keep it going a little longer, but the end is near. The company with an established at risk flying base, a large number of larger planes and a billion in the bank will survive. Those who are totally dependent on CPAs will fade away.

LExpressjet will likely see shrinkage as the ERJ's leases expire and contracts aren't renewed.

I don't know what leverage you think you have, but if this time 83% voted no, next time there will be fewer of you and the process will repeat until all of the ERJ's are gone.

If you only plan a short stay before moving on then I guess it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't expect any additional flying until you have a joint contract and the merger is complete.

Perhaps someday East and West will be merged, that won't happen until Your merger is complete and costs are brought into line.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Peace.

Agreed, Jon, it's morphing into an "at risk" environment. The new"er" buzz word is "code share"... Don't know how that will be entered into this brave new world of regional ops.... I see both SkyWest and ExpressJet cancelling a lot of flights in the near future due to no cockpit crews... When this happens, I would bet Inc will combine to save costs and make more efficient use of crews.. Timeline unknown.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

Manpower management has two primary parts: employee recruitment, and employee retention.

If the company cannot properly staff through recruitment (agreed, not really influenced by the pilot group), retention of existing employees becomes critical. While you can't hope to retain everybody, you need to retain enough to maintain existing operations, to say nothing of growth. And you have to give those employees an incentive to stay in order to retain them, principally financial incentives but also possibly intangible (quality of life/lack of BS).

A combination of recruiting falling short and retention breaking down can put the company into a position where it has no choice but to reduce operations due to a lack of staff.

So to the point:

Lifers and company men won't "save" XJT. Without a contract that is "good enough" to keep FOs for bailing for the prospect of a fast upgrade elsewhere and keep those 10-12 year guys that don't want to take a 5 year earnings hit but are concerned about the company as a going concern and further degradation to their W2s and QOL...the inevitable will catch up.

I have never been a "great pilot shortage" proponent, but the most basic of Econ 101 is starting to take effect and you can see it in hiring at SKW or Horizon vs, say, Endeavor.

Completely spot on and well communicated. Thanks for getting it sir.

 

[XPOO]

Agreed, Jon, it's morphing into an "at risk" environment. The new"er" buzz word is "code share"... Don't know how that will be entered into this brave new world of regional ops.... I see both SkyWest and ExpressJet cancelling a lot of flights in the near future due to no cockpit crews... When this happens, I would bet Inc will combine to save costs and make more efficient use of crews.. Timeline unknown.

Perhaps ExpressJet is having troubles staffing, and cancelling because of it. I can't speak for them. However, SkyWest is not having any problems staffing its flying.

 

[russtgol]

Lets not forget that ExpressJet can't turn a profit either!

 

[ASAFOE120]

Lets not forget that ExpressJet can't turn a profit either!

Which IF true is no fault of the pilots but of the crummy CPA's that st George agreed to. Therefore, it is not my responsibility to take concessions to save this place.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

There is really no way to tell who is profitable. We are all operating under the SKYW Kingdom. Unless we obtain very reliable and accurate financial data, we cannot determine the true efficiency or profitability of particular units within the company. The JNBC had the opportunity to review some of this data, during the TA negotiations. They claim that ALPA National assisted them in deciphering SKYW accounting documents. I have absolutely no faith in the JNCB's ability to read financial reports, let alone a grocery list. Let's face it, they are a bunch of goddamn hicks. Therefore, all we can do is read the PUBLIC documents and make some determinations. One, is that SKYW is profitable. Two, is that XJT operating expenses are less. Three, is that these financial conditions occurred under the current XJT contract.

 

[XPOO]

There is really no way to tell who is profitable. We are all operating under the SKYW Kingdom. Unless we obtain very reliable and accurate financial data, we cannot determine the true efficiency or profitability of particular units within the company. The JNBC had the opportunity to review some of this data, during the TA negotiations. They claim that ALPA National assisted them in deciphering SKYW accounting documents. I have absolutely no faith in the JNCB's ability to read financial reports, let alone a grocery list. Let's face it, they are a bunch of goddamn hicks. Therefore, all we can do is read the PUBLIC documents and make some determinations. One, is that SKYW is profitable. Two, is that XJT operating expenses are less. Three, is that these financial conditions occurred under the current XJT contract.

I just figured that since ExpressJet was bleeding cash long before they were ever bought and combined with ASA, and the fact that all that money to buy both airlines came from the extremely profitable business SkyWest has been for decades, that this entire subject has a pretty simple and blatantly obvious solution. Sorry for the assumptions.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

I just figured that since ExpressJet was bleeding cash long before they were ever bought and combined with ASA, and the fact that all that money to buy both airlines came from the extremely profitable business SkyWest has been for decades, that this entire subject has a pretty simple and blatantly obvious solution. Sorry for the assumptions.

That's all water under the bridge. The 3Q 2013 earnings reports tell the current story.

 

[russtgol]

I just figured that since ExpressJet was bleeding cash long before they were ever bought and combined with ASA, and the fact that all that money to buy both airlines came from the extremely profitable business SkyWest has been for decades, that this entire subject has a pretty simple and blatantly obvious solution. Sorry for the assumptions.

And that is a fact..

 

[Mickey Mouse]

If this ain't a fact, someone's going to jail.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com...7379-72825&type=sect&dcn=0001104659-13-082092

 

[Nevets]

And that is a fact..

Actually it's not. The purchase price was less than what XJT had in cash and cash equivalents. But I'm sure you knew about that fact. Just like you knew that the TA would pass easily, right?

 

[russtgol]

Actually it's not. The purchase price was less than what XJT had in cash and cash equivalents. But I'm sure you knew about that fact. Just like you knew that the TA would pass easily, right?

You are repeating yourself... And yes Xjet still can't turn a profit.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Some things are worth repeating. Got it, you petulant turd?

 

[BoilerUP]

Why would Inc. buy two unprofitable regional airlines?

 

[Nevets]

You are repeating yourself... And yes Xjet still can't turn a profit.

Management is responsible for turning a profit. Pilots are responsible for following the FOM.

And I'm repeating myself because you keep ignoring that fact that you kept repeating that the TA will pass easily. What do you have to say about that now?

 

[Freebrd]

It's probably just another one of Jenny Leigh's screen names, trolling as usual.

 

[XPOO]

Why would Inc. buy two unprofitable regional airlines?

As an insurance policy for SkyWest Airlines. Solidified SkyWest with the lion's share of regional feed for the world's two largest airlines, giving them more bargaining power for future negotiations.

 

[FightingIrish]

Management is responsible for turning a profit. Pilots are responsible for following the FOM.

Management is trying to get costs in line with reduced revenues. This isn't 2004 Nevets and our CPA's aren't as lucrative as they were back then.

 

[ASAFOE120]

Management is trying to get costs in line with reduced revenues. This isn't 2004 Nevets and our CPA's aren't as lucrative as they were back then.

Times have indeed changed. Our legacy "partners" (I use that term loosely) are making record profits while squeezing the regionals into lowered profits or even losses. This is not the fault of the pilots but of management negotiating crummy CPA's. Thusly, rather than coming to the pilots for concessions, INC should instead be looking at increasing revenue while cutting costs in other areas such as lease terms (gates, a/c, facilities, etc..) and maybe refinancing at lower interest rates on debt and such.

I am open to working with mgt on a solution but they need to put forth some effort and prove all avenues to profitability have been exhausted rather than just coming right to us looking for cuts to save the airline.

 

[Nevets]

Management is trying to get costs in line with reduced revenues. This isn't 2004 Nevets and our CPA's aren't as lucrative as they were back then.

Management's job to negotiate CPAs. It's not the pilots fault that they negotiated loser CPAs last round. Why should we pay for it? Do any other employees get a pay cut in order to operate new machinery?

They want to run two separate operations with two sets of management and everything else. Why should the pilots subsidize that rather than consolidate and pocket the synergy cost savings?

Why should we validate our CEO wanting to whipsaw one set of his employees against another set of his employees, all so he and the shareholders can make money off of their employees? It's disgusting, unethical, and immoral. And you will never see me vote for anything that perpetuates that indecency!

 

[Freebrd]

Unfortunately it's the way of the corporate world. But I understandvwhere you're coming from Nevets and agree. I'll be there with you.