Skywest, Expressjet and SLC flying

[Nevets]

That's the sad part. That even with ALPA, they're sub-standard.

And without ALPA, it would be a sweat shop. You said, "ALPA will take care of them. To all the Mesa pilots out there, ALPA will deliver," when in fact ALPA has taken as much care of them and delivered as much as possible considering JO and the alter ego airline he started years ago.

The sad part is that people put them and ALPA down rather than try to help them out.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

And without ALPA, it would be a sweat shop. You said, "ALPA will take care of them. To all the Mesa pilots out there, ALPA will deliver," when in fact ALPA has taken as much care of them and delivered as much as possible considering JO and the alter ego airline he started years ago.

The sad part is that people put them and ALPA down rather than try to help them out.

The best thing anyone can do is help themselves and not ever go to work for JO in the first place!!!

 

[Erlanger]

I think the hatred you speak of towards a pilot group comes when some pilot groups like Mesa and SkyWest take a substandard contract and refuse to unite with the rest of the industry. Then we suddenly see RFPs come out and their airline underbids everyone and captures the flying. Then our companies come to us asking for concessions.

Skywest substandard? Until recently ASA had what I believe we would all agree; a substandard contract. I would actually call it gutter or maybe a ghetto contract. Hmmm! The best ALPA could do all those years! How long did it take you guys and how much money did you loose over those years? So what kind of contract would ASA have now if you were still owned by Delta? Most certainly not what you have now. You guys used Skywest work rules as your model; the goal to attain. You guys really aimed high. Skywest work rules are on par with yours and pay; so you may be .50 more. Wow! Big deal. Actually yours is less, right? Lets not forget that 2% you pay. Now matter what you want to thing, ASA is and will always be the red headed bastard step-child here. Don't ever forget that!

BTW, on a different note. I like the Freedom billboard in ATL that says something about; less pay, high attrition, unhappy pilots and whatever else it says but then says, "To management, pay the pilots what they deserve" and it's signed by ALPA. What a joke. I thought that was what ALPA was suppose to do for the pilots. Do you know what a top notch negotiator once said? He said that,

You get what you negotiate, not what you deserve."

With all the money they have, top caliber negotiators, lawyers and all; all I can say is, "you're doing a great job for the regionals, ALPA."

 

[sweptback]

Now matter what you want to thing, ASA is and will always be the red headed bastard step-child here. Don't ever forget that!

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[Jon Rivoli]

And without ALPA, it would be a sweat shop.

Please. How could MESA concievably be worse than it is? Have you ever talked to a MESA pilot?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Now matter what you want to thing,

???? I'm lost. Does your keyboard have a cold?

 

[Nevets]

Skywest substandard? Until recently ASA had what I believe we would all agree; a substandard contract. I would actually call it gutter or maybe a ghetto contract. Hmmm! The best ALPA could do all those years! How long did it take you guys and how much money did you loose over those years? So what kind of contract would ASA have now if you were still owned by Delta? Most certainly not what you have now. You guys used Skywest work rules as your model; the goal to attain. You guys really aimed high. Skywest work rules are on par with yours and pay; so you may be .50 more. Wow! Big deal. Actually yours is less, right? Lets not forget that 2% you pay. Now matter what you want to thing, ASA is and will always be the red headed bastard step-child here. Don't ever forget that!

BTW, on a different note. I like the Freedom billboard in ATL that says something about; less pay, high attrition, unhappy pilots and whatever else it says but then says, "To management, pay the pilots what they deserve" and it's signed by ALPA. What a joke. I thought that was what ALPA was suppose to do for the pilots. Do you know what a top notch negotiator once said? He said that,

You get what you negotiate, not what you deserve."

With all the money they have, top caliber negotiators, lawyers and all; all I can say is, "you're doing a great job for the regionals, ALPA."

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ASA was not able to get more than .50 more than Skywest because Skywest management decides what they want to pay Skywest pilots, unilaterally. How could ASA even make a creditable argument that they should get paid $10 more than their counterparts? I'm surprised ASA was able to get more than Skywest pilots!!! Since Skywest pilots are not able to force management into real good faith bargaining, they will not be able to "get what you negotiate" because they definitely don't get paid what they deserve!

Also, not all ALPA members pay 1.95% in dues. All probationary pilots (usually one year and sometimes more) do not pay ANY dues. If you decide not to be a union member, you pay 1.45% instead. Also, many members are able to deduct 100% of their dues. Basically, the real effective dues rate of many members is less than 1.95% and for many, its zero.

Next, ALPA does not pay pilots. The company does. ALPA just tries to get as close as possible, given the leverage they have at that particular company at that particular time, to what they deserve. What do you have against a union trying to get increased pay rates and quality of life for its members?

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Yawn. Working at the substandard airline for meager wages...it's not all bad, in fact, better than most I'd say. Some arguments never die; stupidity and rhetoric never get old.

 

[Nevets]

Yawn. Working at the substandard airline for meager wages...it's not all bad, in fact, better than most I'd say. Some arguments never die; stupidity and rhetoric never get old.

Considering the not so substandard money in the bank, it should be much much better.

 

[McNasty]

Who cares about any of this? Just grab a flyrod and go fishin. That takes care of it for me.

Me too, but i grab a bottle of vodka and start medicating. Wake up, wonder who's blood is on my hands and clothes.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Considering the not so substandard money in the bank, it should be much much better.

Ya know...that is likely the weakest anti-SkyWest argument out there.

Last I checked, SkyWest was a business, not a charity. Now, I know the majority of airlines forgot how to make a profit many moons ago, but don't let that make you think they are all out to fail. That money in the bank will put SKYW in a better position to fight through harder economic times, like the ones likely ahead...and already puts them at an financing advantage when buying airframes, thus saving the company large sums of money.

If the money was going directly to Uncle Jerry and Chippy's pockets, then yeah, there would be plenty of room to talk...and, don't get me wrong, we'd all like a payraise. But this statement is exactly what is wrong with the the way the majority of pilots think. It's always about how they deserve more, more, more...even if it may hurt the company and cause me (and thousands more) to lose my job later.

I mean, Nevets, take a look at the situation at your carrier, XJet. You guys had a very successful company, had some great union leadership who pulled the pilots together and negotiated a great contract with increases in pay and QOL...and what happened? Not to say the pilot contract was the only thing, but it was definitely a factor in the reduction of CoEx flying. (And please, lets not turn this into a union argument...I'm staying far outta that.)

So, I respectfully ask, why is there something wrong with flying for the industry average, keeping your contracts, and making (and saving) money quarter after quarter?...so long as that money is going in the bank and not the execs' bonuses, of course.

I think the majority of the people who are genuinely happy here kinda like that security blanket of a bunch of money in the bank...and not worrying too much about where your company is going in this volatile business and if you will be employed next week...my friend, that is a big part of QOL.

 

[rtmcfi]

Jerry is pulling in around 1.5 million a year, not including stocks. At least some of SkyWests $ is making it directly into his pockets.
Keep in mind, that being to cash heavy makes you a tempting takeover target. Your security blanket can be used to smother you.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Jerry is pulling in around 1.5 million a year, not including stocks. At least some of SkyWests $ is making it directly into his pockets.
Keep in mind, that being to cash heavy makes you a tempting takeover target. Your security blanket can be used to smother you.

Ya know, I don't have a problem with Uncle Jerry pulling in 1.5 mil. I mean, he did (with alot of luck) make the company what it is today. That's not ridiculous considering 30+ years with the company and I also don't seem him handing himself huge "Glenn Tiltion-style" bonuses, either.

As far as being an acquisition target, no doubt that blanket can be used to smother you, but I don't see SKYW having a good chunk of that money in the bank by the time merger-mania is over.

 

[bmpilot2003]

If the money was going directly to Uncle Jerry and Chippy's pockets, then yeah, there would be plenty of room to talk...and, don't get me wrong, we'd all like a payraise. But this statement is exactly what is wrong with the the way the majority of pilots think. It's always about how they deserve more, more, more...even if it may hurt the company and cause me (and thousands more) to lose my job later.

Blaming pilots is pretty low when all you do is sit inside in front of a computer all day.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Ya know, I don't have a problem with Uncle Jerry pulling in 1.5 mil. I mean, he did (with alot of luck) make the company what it is today...and I also don't seem him handing himself huge "Glenn Tiltion-style" bonuses, either.

As far as being an acquisition target, no doubt that blanket can be used to smother you, but I don't see SKYW having a good chunk of that money in the bank by the time merger-mania is over.

Some of us that helped "make the company what it is today" alongside JA, including 13 leg days with no autopilot in the SA-226, wouldn't mind a small percentage of that as thanx!

 

[WalterSobchak]

Blaming pilots is pretty low when all you do is sit inside in front of a computer all day.

I didn't blame pilots for anything. (I will save my thoughts on your referring to my comments as "low"...as there was nothing "low" about them.)

I did, however, point out a general flaw in the "Me, Me, Me!" thinking of the average pilot. You can't deny it exists...you all accuse one another of it everyday on this message board.

Some of us that helped "make the company what it is today" alongside JA, including 13 leg days with no autopilot in the SA-226, wouldn't mind a small percentage of that as thanx!

And, it is no doubt well deserved. Most SkyWest pilots work their tails off, and I understand they always have. Thus I said, "we'd all like a payraise" in a previous post. But you can't expect the company to just hand it over...you gotta go after it.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I didn't blame pilots for anything. (I will save my thoughts on your referring to my comments as "low"...as there was nothing "low" about them.)

I did, however, point out a general flaw in the "Me, Me, Me!" thinking of the average pilot. You can't deny it exists...you all accuse one another of it everyday on this message board.

And, it is no doubt well deserved. Most SkyWest pilots work their tails off, and I understand they always have. Thus I said, "we'd all like a payraise" in a previous post. But you can't expect the company to just hand it over...you gotta go after it.

I'd be curious as to how you suggest we "go after it", especially since you seem to be anti-ALPA/Union??!!

 

[CFIT]

Considering the not so substandard money in the bank, it should be much much better.

After ALPA, only year 18 ($00.26) is less ASA's 700 rate, all other years are higher. 200 rates are all higher.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I'd be curious as to how you suggest we "go after it", especially since you seem to be anti-ALPA/Union??!!

I've made it clear repeatedly that I have no grounds for being anti-ALPA or pro-ALPA (or any other union, for that matter) as it is not my fight. That is entirely the decision of the pilot group and I stay out of it...just as I would expect SKYW pilots to stay out of the business of the dispatch group if they were to consider unionizing. We don't know your personal daily struggles, and you guys sure as hell don't know ours (as evidenced by the comments made toward our employee group on this board).

I have no suggestion for how to "go after it"...you've gotta figure that out for yourself.

Upon re-reading my posts...can you explain to me how you took anything I wrote as being "anti-ALPA/Union"? Or, do you just automatically default to that when someone who doesn't fly the line makes logical statements?

Drinking while posting is fun...

 

[WalterSobchak]

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