Skywest CRJ200

[twinbeech]

Are YOU serious? Holy cripe! "Testicular reassignment"? "Scared little puppy"?

Bravery, balls, and ego have nothing to do with 121 passenger flying. Professionalism and safety do. I'm not exactly who you're trying to impress out there . . . believe me, other pilots don't give a crap what you do, except when you embarass the rest of us by pretending you're Chuck Yeager.

Sweet! I finally got someone to bite on this juicy one. Come on guys, I posted this at 3am after drinking Croc's out of their dollar Coronas!

Personally I think better safe than sorry, but I also don't want to needlessly scare the passengers. There is obviously a big difference between failing at 30 versus 0 or asymetrical. Cover your arse and declare, have the trucks on standby or roll them if you want to. I think having the pax brace is a little much, but it is your perrogative.

The point is that you should talk it over with your flying partner and come up with a plan. Then completely relate everything to the f/a and the pax. Now land the effin airplane, go get a beer at the hotel bar and call it a day. If you really play up your Yeager status, maybe the f/a will come congratulate you at the end of the night!

 

[Poahi]

I've worked for two CRJ operators and all the check airmen I've talked to say that if it's just a flaps failure and the flaps are not asymetrical, bracing the pax is overdoing it. Declaring an emergency wasn't spelled out, but it was recommended.

 

[Socalplt]

SkyWest actually put out a memo a couple years ago stating this "wasn't an emergency situation unless landing on a short runway" and "not to declare an emergency".

Bracing the pax is overkill.

Assuming you don't float halfway down the runway and then have to overuse the brakes, most of the passengers would notice anything different.

On a 10,000' runway you shouldn't even need the brakes until below 80kts.

 

[Edge540]

I think this is one of those situations where there is no pre-set right answer. A lot of times the flaps don't fail at 0. My good friend had a flap failure at 30, symmetrical so no big deal. He said his pansy FO threw a fit and almost hopped on the radio and declared an emergency. They were landing at MEM. What a crock.

You guys need to learn to take advantage of our (hopefully) built in Critical Thinking Skills. If the flaps fail at 0 or 8, sure declare away. If the flaps fail asymmetrical, sure declare away. Other than that, why waste everyones time so they can watch a normal landing?

And if you can't land this airplane without flaps without fu*king it up, I worry about you. I really do.

 

[ArcticFlier]

~47000 pounds~

Vref +5 is 178 kts if memory serves.

Here's a question:

Is the Vtire of 182 kts for the MLG tires, the NLG tire, or all three?

I've done one in SFO...............didn't even get the BTMS up to 3's across the board...............and it was a warm day...................sun was out.

 

[CFIT]

I've had 4 actual no flap landings and train in the actual aircraft with each Captain type ride to a balk approach. By it self, it's not that big of deal, but if the runway was slick or on the edge of being long enough, then fine pull the trigger with the emergency. About 10 years ago SkyWest had a rash of flap failures that was ultimately caused by some comtaminated grease that was used to service the aircraft, if you were in the plane back then (I was) then you probably got your share of no flap landings.

 

[flyby]

~47000 pounds~

Would 47,000 be less than the MLW? That's a lot of aluminum for 50 seats.

 

[svcta]

If memory serves MLW is 47000.

 

[Soverytired]

I don't think it's just about the VMax Tire speed . . . the structural warning is because pilots are not accustomed to landing the plane at such a flat angle. It's incredibly easy to do the classic C172 "3-point landing" in a CRJ with zero flaps. . which the nosewheel in the CRJ probably wasn't designed for.

As to the "brace" . . . offhand I can't think of ANY checklist in my manual that ever specifically requires the "brace" command. It is, however, included as part of our standard "brief the f/a on what to do in case of emergency".

So yeah, I guess it's about judgment. Probably no right or wrong answer on this, other than "alls well that ends well".

 

[CFIT]

At straight in ref speed the deck angle is 2 1/2 degrees above the horizon, not below. If you can hit the nose wheel first on a no flap landing, you worked pretty hard to make it happen.