Skywest: Confessions Of A Kool-Aid Drinker

[Ponchus pilot]

It must be purchased above and beyond your 1.95%. I encourage all to look at the cost vs reward for this insurance if it is your primary reason for wanting ALPA.

First year is free and after that its a very cheap. Also, having a contract is insurance.

 

[toolboX]

Hootie9750

Hootie9750,

Get your chapstick out @ss-boy.

 

[Ponchus pilot]

A few years ago alps's LOL insurance was the federation of airline pilots (think that was it) and they went BANKRUPT! Guess what, those that had the insurance only got a small part of what they were paying for all those years... alpa's reply___________?

I dont know how long ago that was. Its been with Guardian as far as I can remember and it paid me pretty well when I needed it. I hope no one ever has to use it.

Another aspect is whether industry wide labor groups are a good thing compared to having an in house union that tends to deal more with issues surrounding a particular company.

How do you explain the MEC's?

 

[auspac]

Sweptback, I wonder if the employees at Comair would be in such a situation if it weren't for the union - which includes flight attendants and mechanics. The new opportunities could include more DAL flying or just retaining what they already have. How about Air Wisconsin? I don't think they're in a bad situation but I feel for those guys who bought houses in Denver and now have to commute across the country. Would they be in that sitation if they could be more competitive? Of course you could probably lay the blame with non-union airlines like Skywest. I'm not arguing a point, just suggesting. If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

 

[atrdriver]

SKW treats me just fine in regards to, pay, QOL and, most importantly, dignity. If that changes, then it might be time for a union.

No, then it will be too late for a union.

 

[Willy21]

If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

I don't think being an ALPA carrier or not will prevent that from happening. We are all at the mercy of the next guy in line that will do our job for less.

 

[atrdriver]

atrdriver,

your posts are usually well thought out and well presented. you can't really think that Jerry, Brad and Ron would, or should, say 'hey, this will be a fun and interesting challenge-let's do it!'

No, I don't think that they would welcome such a challenge. But, if they are truely professional managers, that is how they would look at the formation of a union. I have been in management, albeit in a different industry, that had both union and non union shops. Those managers who did well in the union shops approached dealing with the union as something that would benefit both the company as well as the employees. Those that did not do well in the union shops treated the employees badly. Amazingly, the same things that made the managers do good or bad in the non union shops.

 

[imacdog]

Sweptback, I wonder if the employees at Comair would be in such a situation if it weren't for the union - which includes flight attendants and mechanics. The new opportunities could include more DAL flying or just retaining what they already have. How about Air Wisconsin? I don't think they're in a bad situation but I feel for those guys who bought houses in Denver and now have to commute across the country. Would they be in that sitation if they could be more competitive? Of course you could probably lay the blame with non-union airlines like Skywest. I'm not arguing a point, just suggesting. If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

If you're saying that allowing management to unilaterally slash pay and benefits for employees is a good thing, well I guess that's your opinion. Personally I want my pilot group to have a voice in our future. If you want to work at a company that can do that to you, then a union is probably not the best option. If you want an organization that will fight for what you are worth, then you have to unionize.

 

[atrdriver]

Sweptback, I wonder if the employees at Comair would be in such a situation if it weren't for the union - which includes flight attendants and mechanics. The new opportunities could include more DAL flying or just retaining what they already have. How about Air Wisconsin? I don't think they're in a bad situation but I feel for those guys who bought houses in Denver and now have to commute across the country. Would they be in that sitation if they could be more competitive? Of course you could probably lay the blame with non-union airlines like Skywest. I'm not arguing a point, just suggesting. If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

So tell me what you think having a union on property is doing to prevent "flexibility". If the company comes to the union as equals and respect, then there is no loss of flexibility at all. If management decides to treat the union
as an adversary, then there will be problems. But that happens whether there is a union or not. The way I read your post it sounds like the flexibility that they need is payrates, and that is just not the case.

 

[sweptback]

Sweptback, I wonder if the employees at Comair would be in such a situation if it weren't for the union - which includes flight attendants and mechanics. The new opportunities could include more DAL flying or just retaining what they already have. How about Air Wisconsin? I don't think they're in a bad situation but I feel for those guys who bought houses in Denver and now have to commute across the country. Would they be in that sitation if they could be more competitive? Of course you could probably lay the blame with non-union airlines like Skywest. I'm not arguing a point, just suggesting. If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

None of the problems that you talk about were caused by the union.

If management wants to shut Comair down, no amount of concessions will stop that. If there was no union at CMR, the pilots would be working for 15% less while facing the same problems.

No Air Wisconsin pilot blames ALPA for their management turning down the United bid. I guess you mean taking concessions by talking about being more competitive. Didn't AW pilots take concessions, and yet still lost the flying? What more could they have done?

 

[www.]

Thanks for the replies. All except mckpickle have added constructrive posts. Asapilot, A-V-8 and Atrdriver , thanks for your points of view. It is refreshing when we can share ideas in a rational way. Too often pro ALPA people are very quick with the insults and threats and I believe they do much more harm to their cause than good, but these boards attract the extremists and I believe most pilots whether ALPA or not have valid ideas.
Is what SeeYa posts true? I was thinking about loss of medical and loss of licence, does that require additional funds ontop of the 2% dues? How much?

I feel the most important thing to think about is Jerry Atkin stating that "I can change the rules at any time".

1. If he offers you something, get it in a binding document.

2. Always have an end game. Your 70 seat rates from several years ago that were to be re-negotiated after 18 months could of used a binding arbitration clause. It's not all doom and gloom.

3. ALPA is by the pilots for the pilots. Meaning that it is what "your" pilots put into it. At ASA we had a great relationship with management in the late 90s. ALPA and this VP worked great together.

 

[007]

Sweptback, I wonder if the employees at Comair would be in such a situation if it weren't for the union - which includes flight attendants and mechanics. The new opportunities could include more DAL flying or just retaining what they already have. How about Air Wisconsin? I don't think they're in a bad situation but I feel for those guys who bought houses in Denver and now have to commute across the country. Would they be in that sitation if they could be more competitive? Of course you could probably lay the blame with non-union airlines like Skywest. I'm not arguing a point, just suggesting. If we become unionized will I be having to commute across the country in five years time when the next cheaper regional comes along, or by joining ALPA do you think I will help prevent that from happening? I don't know.

Do you want a guarantee? From your posts it sounded like you had been around for a while..... If you believe Jerry can guarantee you that while keeping you happy then maybe you don't need ALPA. ALPA is a tool, your elected officials make or break the union. ALPA is not a guarantee for happiness. I do agree with the previous posts that you guys should not be afraid of p0ssing off Jerry. If he really likes the Pilot Group the union should not matter. The managment/union relationship does not have to be a bad one. If you elect officials who want to keep things status quo, then things will stay status quo. You do not have to get that "industry leading contract" if you don't want it.

 

[VABB]

Unconstructive....ya right. I simply said I couldn't deal with your post because of the kool-aide. Face it, you milking off the teet of what other UNIONIZE groups have gained for you. You didn't do shiit yourselves. If it were not for us you'd be paid a heck of a lot less. Not to mention that you contribute nothing to the industry as a whole. Your assertions are moot since you don't know how unions work at other carriers and the things we do for our pilots and the industry.

I'm not going to sit here and blow sunshine up your apu. Get with the freakin program. I'm also not going to suger coat it. Get with the program. If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
And BTW, you were way off base on the asertion that only coex and Comair were PFT.

Just out of curiosity, how many of the commuter PFT airlines during the mid to late 90's were represented by a union? How many of them were ALPA?

Some like to talk about how much good the unions have done for the regionals, but where were these unions when PFT was going on? Why didn't the union do more (or anything) to try and stop it?

 

[Cardinal]

Would anybody here like to work for Southwest? I'll go first: yes, I would. There you have an example of a unionized labor groups (SWAPA works alongside the gorrillas of representation, like the IAM) working with management for mutual benefit. It can be done. If your culture and levels of mutual respect are as high as advertised, then formal representation will work fantastically.

 

[VABB]

Auspac:

Consider that without ALPA, the SkyWest pilots are not members in an organization which works to improve this profession. When ALPA sits down with management, you are not represented at that table. (and the airlines' who's names are painted on your jet are represented by ALPA)

You mean like United and Delta? How has ALPA worked to improve the profession at those airlines? If you are management, ALPA has worked to make your job much, much more pleasant. ALPA has only proved that they will roll over very easily.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I think the argument of management-union relations is interesting to look at. On one hand, current union members say, "Look at Southwest! They have a union and they have wonderful relations with management! It is possible!" However, the MAJORITY of MGT-union relations are poor and confrontational. The very nature of the union is confrontational. The SKYW fence-walkers say, "Yeah, we COULD have a good relationship, but, playing the odds, things would go south."

On the other hand, union backers say, "Well, tomorrow JA could be out the door and everything would go to hello in a handbasket. EVERYTHING could be taken away!" Yet, after a 35 year track record, the company has yet to truly mistreat their employees as a whole. To me, it seems like the whole union drive motive is based on what COULD happen, without considering the history of this company. Yet, ALPA members say, "well, look at the history of what ALPA has done!" I will be the very first person to admit, unions definately had a place in american labor relations. I, like many, am unsure if the benefits are worth the drawbacks. I really do appreiciate the informative tone of this post, lets keep it up. There are many pilots who are trying to make a decision at SKYW.

 

[thebest]

So tell me what you think having a union on property is doing to prevent "flexibility". If the company comes to the union as equals and respect, then there is no loss of flexibility at all. If management decides to treat the union
as an adversary, then there will be problems. But that happens whether there is a union or not. The way I read your post it sounds like the flexibility that they need is payrates, and that is just not the case.

History has proven this! THEBEST

 

[thebest]

Would anybody here like to work for Southwest? I'll go first: yes, I would. There you have an example of a unionized labor groups (SWAPA works alongside the gorrillas of representation, like the IAM) working with management for mutual benefit. It can be done. If your culture and levels of mutual respect are as high as advertised, then formal representation will work fantastically.

Becareful, Southwest is riding the good wave. Just wait, their time will come around again. IE paycuts, bene redux. etc It happens to EVERYONE! THEBEST

 

[SuperKooter]

It would be retarded for skywest to vote those Goons in Alpa in. Skywest has some of the best work rules in the industry and get paid more than ASA. They are also getting more airplans than they can handle. Alpa will just screw that all up.

Just look at ASA, what as alpa given ASA? Ask those capatins that are F/os again at ASA. That great 70 rate will be cool once you guys get it, too bad you won't have any left to fly.

 

[embdrvr]

atrdriver,

your posts are usually well thought out and well presented. you can't really think that Jerry, Brad and Ron would, or should, say 'hey, this will be a fun and interesting challenge-let's do it!'

According to the forward looking statement given to investors the company says they expect some or all employee groups to potentially unionize.
They would be fools not to. This is the airline industry after all. It's a unionized industry for the most part. Those gents in SGU aren't stupid and while they would prefer to remain non-union they will adjust to dealing with unions. With ASA they are learning quickly.

Do you think they will just pick up their toys and go home? Hey we'll just liquidate the company since ALPA showed up. Right... Can I have some what you're smoking kid?