skywest.alpa.org

[nimtz]

Don;'t use ALPA. THey are not in the business of representing regional pilots.

Any regional pilot will tell u this....

Ah I'm another 'regional pilot' who has been represented by ALPA perfectly fine. Dear god I even give to the PAC, too bad I'm not as enlighted with poor generalizations as you.

 

[nimtz]

BleDevAv8r:

You must not remember that you almost had one list with your brothers at Continental before ALPA stepped in and derailed it.

'

Fins, you are talking out of your @ss. This ain't your element, so be quiet.

 

[Russ]

"Skywest is about to have their Fee-per-departure rates lowered just like every Delta Connection Carrier. We shall see how "record Breaking" those profits will become"

You make it sound like SkyWest hasn't been down this road. The bulk of our revenue comes from UAL. Thier bankruptcy has been lucrative for SkyWest. No reason to believe that DAL's entry will break the bank or be significantly different. On top of that we lost Continental flying and SGU is still rolling in the dough.

I will give you, you know the company line well.

 

[DrewBlows]

No Dues for Duane
ALPA is Latin for "every man for themselves"
ALPA DOES NOT SPEAK FOR MEhttp://www.dp3.org/data/Neg.NotepadSep21.pdf

Joe,
Out of curiosity, how has ALPA wronged you? You seem to have very strong anti ALPA feelings, what caused these?

 

[ex j-41]

What caused these?

How about flying a 33 million dollar jet for $22,000.

Alpa and management have done a great job of making sure the public knows
all about how pilots make 6 figures.

I am just saying that we should get a FAIR wage for work performed.
ALPA failed to negotiate this. I pay my ALPA dues for what? So i can collect
food stamps?

 

[pianoman]

Guess who negotiated the contract? YOUR negotiators. (Who are pilots on your seniority list. Who approved it? YOUR reps. Who signed it? YOUR pilots. Last I heard, we all had pilot ratification.

I expect ALPA to do many things. I don't expect them to change economic reality. When you can show me a play-by-play of what ALPA could have reasonably done to ensure you get paid a whole lot more, you let me know. They can't MAKE your pilots go on strike to get another contract.

ALPA is run by the pilots. It's no one's fault but our own if we sign away our lives to shiny jet syndrome.

THINGS I PAY MY DUES FOR:

Contract enforcement (fight my greivances)
Disciplinary representation
Accident representation
Aeromedical backup- one of their best assets
monitoring jumpseat agreements
Professional standards- if I make my FO that mad, maybe he'll go the union first instead of getting me fired right away

I don't agree with everything my MEC or ALPA nat'l does, but it's a democracy and I can't think of a better system so far.

 

[Texx]

So this 19% paycut at Delta is better than your 1.2% payraise because it ends in 5 YEARS! The last 19% paycut the Delta pilots agreed to had an end date also - it has just been extended.

Now this pilot is just pissed at ALPA. Hell he probably hasn't even done ALPA work for his own pilot group or have you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Now this pilot is just pissed at ALPA. Hell he probably hasn't even done ALPA work for his own pilot group or have you?

Joe Merchant has done ALPA work...and he should know better..

Currently he is quite bitter and can't see straight on the issues....

Unfortunatley, he is using a one silver bullet blame game....

Problem is pilots create expectations on misinformation about ALPA. When thier expectations aren't met, all hel1 breaks loose... Air Line Pilot becomes the most expensive magazine...

Getting to the regional represenation issue....

About seven years ago their was no real Regional Rep issue... why? Becuase the growth and hiring into the majors was exploding! Who cared about the regionals....nobody was staying! Thus no ALPA issue...

Fast Fwd to now... guys are pissed because thier .......expectations aren't being met.... who can we blame. Let's play the blame game, todays contestants, DW and your MEC!

If you have issues with ALPA now then you had issue with ALPA then.....funny..I didn't hear anybody complain about the ALPA negotiated UAL and DAL contract... ALPA was great... the regional pilots were simply dreaming about those UAL/DAL payrates....

But...now....it is a different tune.... Yet nobody is complaining to management about their destroyed career expectations... Why not go to your CEO and complain about your slashed pay and work rules.. Think he will give you the time of day? Management are the ones repsonsible for generating revenue and your paycheck!!

The reason pilots complian to ALPA is because ALPA are the only ones that will listen.....

I guess your 1.95% buys you a b1tch session....

I'd rather spend my dues money more effectively....


I support ALPA PAC too....

 

[FmrFreightDog]

'

Fins, you are talking out of your @ss. This ain't your element, so be quiet.

You forget that you're debating the RJDC. While they may be good at scaremongering and yellow journalism, fact is not their forte.....

 

[PCL_128]

Don;'t use ALPA. THey are not in the business of representing regional pilots.

Any regional pilot will tell u this....

Not this regional pilot. In fact, I doubt you'll even get a majority of regional pilots to say this. There's just a few malcontents that are very loud in proclaiming their hatred of ALPA. They are typically just your common line pilots that have never bothered to be an ALPA volunteer or even speak to their elected reps before running their mouths about things that they don't understand. I've found that it's best to just ignore them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

a) That is 100% incorrect.

b) ALPA didn't come in and do "anything" to either our process or CAL's process.

Please cite your sources or come on here with facts before making such claims Fins.

-Neal

Neal:

I understand after you voted ALPA on the property the COEX MEC was disbanded and the COEX pilots given one vote on the Continental MEC. That's real representation If you want to think that doesn't do "anything" to your process you must believe a 9 to 1 vote on every issue is representative democracy.

If you are around, do you still have any pictures of Duane lifting glasses with the Continental scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues? I'd like to have a copy.

~~~^~~~

And no, I do not hate ALPA. ALPA has a problem that needs to be fixed. SkyWest pilots would be smart to consider ALPA, warts and all.

In my opinion the union has been hijacked by those who do not understand why alter ego is the union's worst enemy. I hold to the principles ALPA stood on in its first 50 years when it used to bring together pilots to bargain collectively. I encourage everyone to read Flying the Line volumes I and II and compare this to where we are now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Follow up....

if the regional guys were effective enough to remove themsleves from ALPA, what is the game plan then...? How will they fill the void. Their organization would be so new, disorganized and ineffective.... In no time they will be crying in thier Wheaties as ALPA runs circles around them.

Hello, this Capt. Reg from the Regional Pilots of America. I'd like to discuss issues with the Senator about our pilots being career oppressed not getting crew meals.

who?

RAPA... the Regional Airline Pilots of America.

Never heard of you.

We are new...

Have you called ALPA? They address the issues of Air Line Pilots.

[steaming]

Hello? Maybe you could come with ALPA next time they are in...

 

[~~~^~~~]

RAPA... the Regional Airline Pilots of America.

Never heard of you.

We are new...

Have you called ALPA? They address the issues of Air Line Pilots.

[steaming]

Hello? Maybe you could come with ALPA next time they are in...

Excellent point. My hope is that if the SkyWest pilots choose to join ALPA they will be smart, like the FedEx pilots were. Negotiating things like a EVP and other Representational benefits before voting.

There is not much point in being a member of a union that you are locked out of.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

CAL/XJT MEC separation

Coex pilots were not outvoted 9-1 on the CAL MEC. I believe it was more like 9=7. Most importantly, Coex plus the EWR mainline reps outvoted the scab faction, which gave them fits. The only reason the MEC split is because the scabs (IAH LEC, GUM and CLE CA reps) and their factions threatened to torpedo our strike vote if we did not leave. Ironically, the day the split happened a resolution for one seniority list was actually passed! The EWR mainline reps were then taken out of the room and "counseled" by the scabs, and half an hour later the re-vote failed. Are we better off with our own MEC? Only time will tell. Of course Neal can chime in and point out all the errors I made...

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Skywest is about to have their Fee-per-departure rates lowered just like every Delta Connection Carrier. We shall see how "record Breaking" those profits will become.

Waco

I believe the ASA purchase agreement addresses this very issue. SKYW managment is among the smartest in the business. Everyone knew that DAL would likely end up in bankruptcy. I'm not sure of the exact language but I know that there are financial penalties if the ASA or SKYW contracts are modified as a result of the bankruptcy. I think something like 100 or 125 million of the purchase price was held back for that reason. Also when you look at the combined size of ASA and SKYW there's a lot of feed that DAL could not replace overnight. I wouldn't anticipate any major changes unless DAL liquidates.

 

[viper548]

Mr. Atkin has a long history of making very wise decisions

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Is it just a coincidence that airlines that are successful long term keep the same managment around? Jerry has been with SkyWest over 30 years. Herb Kelleher has been with WN for a similar period of time although it sounds like he's not quite as involved on a day to day basis as he used to be.

Colleen Barrett is a longterm WN employee.

Ron Reber is a longterm SKYW employee.

Airlines that change CEO's like underwear never seem to be profitable. CEO's with zero airline experience don't seem work out quite as well as those that have experience.

I haven't read "Nuts" but I have read both published histories of SKYW. It's kind of neat seeing Ron R as a hippie looking CDC ramper and reading about Jerry throwing bags and washing airplanes.

Another commonality between Jerry and Herb is that I think while they are both motivated by making money they aren't there just for the money. I think either one of them could have found a position that paid more money. The better leaders want to see something through and build a great company. Most CEO's are content to make their millions and then bail out with the proverbial golden parachute when they hit some roadblocks.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal:

I understand after you voted ALPA on the property the COEX MEC was disbanded and the COEX pilots given one vote on the Continental MEC. That's real representation If you want to think that doesn't do "anything" to your process you must believe a 9 to 1 vote on every issue is representative democracy.

Unfortunately, you understand incorrectly Fins. This is why I hate RJDC rhetoric...it is typically based off of yellow journalism and lack of any factual information.

We never had a "COEX MEC" prior to ALPA. The IACP was run collectively by the CAL and CALEX pilots with each domicile having its own status rep for each seat. CAL actually had more than the current 9 reps back then due to a HNL base as well as SO reps (DC-10 and 727). So CALEX had its reps at the table and so did CAL. Naturally CAL had more reps since they had more bases and seats. At the time of the ALPA merger, CAL had 9 reps and CALEX had 7 reps, which is where both MEC's are today as well.

So with our new ALPA single MEC, we had 16 total reps and CAL had 9 of those reps at the table while XJT had 7...in other words, not 9 versus 1 as you incorrectly claim. We functioned (or dysfunctioned) more or less just like any other MEC, except we collectively represented 2 different airlines' pilot groups.

If you are around, do you still have any pictures of Duane lifting glasses with the Continental scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues? I'd like to have a copy.

I was around then...just coming off of probation and I voted in favor of the ALPA merger and 4 1/2 years later, I am very satisfied with that decision. The scab stuff and back-pay stuff was politics, no doubt, but ultimately I am glad our two pilot groups chose to bring ALPA back on property.

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Coex pilots were not outvoted 9-1 on the CAL MEC. I believe it was more like 9=7. Most importantly, Coex plus the EWR mainline reps outvoted the scab faction, which gave them fits. The only reason the MEC split is because the scabs (IAH LEC, GUM and CLE CA reps) and their factions threatened to torpedo our strike vote if we did not leave. Ironically, the day the split happened a resolution for one seniority list was actually passed! The EWR mainline reps were then taken out of the room and "counseled" by the scabs, and half an hour later the re-vote failed. Are we better off with our own MEC? Only time will tell. Of course Neal can chime in and point out all the errors I made...

Why would I point out all of the errors that you made (or didn't make)? You accurately described the events of how we became our own MEC, but Fins was talking about what happened just as ALPA was brought back on property in 2001 and not how the MEC was split back in 2004. That said, what you described above is 100% accurate....although that single list resolution would never have produced much of anything anyways at this point (unfortunately).

-Neal

 

[nimtz]

Nice Job Neal. Fins, as I said before don't run your mouth about things you don't understand.