Skywest ALPA OC petitions NMB

[FlySacto]

I used to be a republican and anti-union. I blame Bush/Cheney for turning me into a Democrat and SAPA for turning me pro-union.

As part of the vast right wing conspiracy, one of the major attractions of SkyWest was the fact that they were non-union. After almost three years here and seeing for myself that this is no longer the "mom and pop that takes care of their people" airline I had researched and heard about, I've also come to see the light. I've talked with guys that have put in their twenty years, ten years, and five years. Most of them will tell you that they don't feel the same for SkyWest as they had in the past and the way the company has slowly turned on the quality of life and benefits in slow motion. I also don't feel as I did when I first came to work here. I've seen enough of the open interpretations and changes to the CPM, lack of SAPA's ability to counter the slow slide downhill, and have even experienced getting to talk with managment over an issue that is not addressed in any of the company policys and taking an ass chewing. I won't go into detail so don't ask but the crap they pulled would make you think someone upstairs doesn't know basic US law, common sense or basic courtesy. We'll see where this issue goes in a future post I've got another right wing buddy who told me years ago that a union was a necessity when your an airline pilot. I laughed at him. Now I feel I owe him an apology!

I won't put an ALPA bumpersticker on my car but I'm sure as hell going to put one of their cards in my wallet given the chance. ALPA is not going to be a magic pill that's going to make everything better but here's a chance for us to actually have someone besides SAPA represent our interest and careers that has some experience, knowledge, and resources to do the job a hell of a lot better than we have had in the past. Tell me how that's a bad thing...

BTW- I'll never vote for Hillary!

 

[SkyNation]

FlySacto,

thanks for the honest post. I like the BTW part at the end.

just out of curiosity, where do you wish you'd gone instead of coming here three years ago (same time I've been here)? I researched it as well.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

Does anyone really believe that the lack of ALPA on property has led to whatever (arguable) problems there are at SKW? Perhaps it's the current nature of the industry.

On the other hand, has the presence of ALPA at other regionals led to all the great things the OC is currently promising for SKW?

Ask any of the hundreds of ALPA members how they feel after watching their retirement wash down the drain. To use a typical OC member's phrase, what did a "legally binding contract" get these pilots?

 

[FlySacto]

FlySacto,

thanks for the honest post. I like the BTW part at the end.

just out of curiosity, where do you wish you'd gone instead of coming here three years ago (same time I've been here)? I researched it as well.

Honestly, I'm glad to be at SkyWest! I'm a California guy and enjoy working in my own back yard. That being said, I'm a bit disapointed to see the direction the company has gone since Y2K. The company has really grown and it has become a very large company which is good, but it just might not be capable of keeping that basic foundation that made it what it was. As so, I think it's time for the pilots to consider that fact and also make some changes on how they are being represented. It's a bitter pill to swallow for some of us but sometimes it's a bitter medicine that will preserve your long term health or make you better. We will be the ones who will decide how we want our ALPA to work with the company. I'd hope to see both the company and the pilots strive to maintain a good relationship as we both move forward and grow.

 

[www.]

1. Does anyone really believe that the lack of ALPA on property has led to whatever (arguable) problems there are at SKW? Perhaps it's the current nature of the industry.

2. On the other hand, has the presence of ALPA at other regionals led to all the great things the OC is currently promising for SKW?

3. Ask any of the hundreds of ALPA members how they feel after watching their retirement wash down the drain.

3.a To use a typical OC member's phrase, what did a "legally binding contract" get these pilots?

1. Some of the problems can be the industry but do you have any control/input into solving those problems as a group? SAPA, I think not.

2. The only thing anyone should promise is that you WILL be invovled in the process of electing YOUR reps if ALPA is welcomed on your property. This gives YOUR pilots the opportunity to chart a path that YOUR pilots want. Issues are different at every airline.

3. Pensions are gone. Ask the mainline guys which you speak of how much of a lump sum of stock did they get after BK. You think that a non union group would have been able to handle that fight?

3.a. Do you really think Jerry would have given you everything you have if it were not for the pressure to keep unions out of Skywest? Now that the profit margins are tight, where do you think JA will go when there is no more to cut? You got it. A work group without a binding contract. Now that Skywest is such a large company. JA's focus must be, and is on, the shareholders return and value, not you.

To sum it up. If your going to talk the talk you better walk the walk. JA is a businessman. Business is business so get it in ink.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

1. Some of the problems can be the industry but do you have any control/input into solving those problems as a group? SAPA, I think not.

2. The only thing anyone should promise is that you WILL be invovled in the process of electing YOUR reps if ALPA is welcomed on your property. This gives YOUR pilots the opportunity to chart a path that YOUR pilots want. Issues are different at every airline.

3. Pensions are gone. Ask the mainline guys which you speak of how much of a lump sum of stock did they get after BK. You think that a non union group would have been able to handle that fight?

3.a. Do you really think Jerry would have given you everything you have if it were not for the pressure to keep unions out of Skywest? Now that the profit margins are tight, where do you think JA will go when there is no more to cut? You got it. A work group without a binding contract. Now that Skywest is such a large company. JA's focus must be, and is on, the shareholders return and value, not you.

To sum it up. If your going to talk the talk you better walk the walk. JA is a businessman. Business is business so get it in ink.

Yes, but why does SKW remain, all things considered, the leader among the regionals? Proof of this is the simple fact that SKW continues to attract pilots from ALPA represented airlines and many of those pilots report overall improvement rather than a descline in things like QOL, culture, pay and others.

I don't doubt much of what you say but the question remains, why does SKW continue to lead among the regionals?

 

[FlyboyPhil]

Skynation.. if your company is in bankruptcy you should be looking at ways to cut costs.. and neither ALPA, SAPA or Santa are going to be able to overrule the judge, but which of those three do you want on your side of the aisle in the courtroom?
We are not in bankruptcy, we are making profits yet the slide continues and we have almost no input and no recourse. You just upgraded in the not too distant past and your earning potential at skywest just hit the cap unless you become a checkairman/sim instructor. Your longevity increases are being eaten by inflation and penstroke policy changes, and when/if you do hit the big money as a checkairman/sim instructor you will only get half the 401k limit and half the match. You better not spend too much money now and get a second job so you can retire like the rest of us.
Do you want SAPA and a 2nd job or ALPA and half a chance at a career with retirement potential?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Does anyone really believe that the lack of ALPA on property has led to whatever (arguable) problems there are at SKW? Perhaps it's the current nature of the industry.

On the other hand, has the presence of ALPA at other regionals led to all the great things the OC is currently promising for SKW?

Ask any of the hundreds of ALPA members how they feel after watching their retirement wash down the drain. To use a typical OC member's phrase, what did a "legally binding contract" get these pilots?

So you think it's best to just "bury our heads in the sand" and let things continue to slide??

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yes, but why does SKW remain, all things considered, the leader among the regionals? Proof of this is the simple fact that SKW continues to attract pilots from ALPA represented airlines and many of those pilots report overall improvement rather than a descline in things like QOL, culture, pay and others.

I don't doubt much of what you say but the question remains, why does SKW continue to lead among the regionals?

It doesn't....take a look at Horizon and Continental Express! SkyWest Inc. leads with the biggest profit margins in the entire industry(see AIN Feb 2007), while we(the ones who help make that happen) keep sliding with no COLA since hire date prior to 9/11, and locked in with the 0 or 1% for the next 4 years!

 

[MoreDaysOff]

So you think it's best to just "bury our heads in the sand" and let things continue to slide??

Recognizing that ALPA doesn't seem to deliver it's promises is not burying your head. It's just observing fact.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Recognizing that ALPA doesn't seem to deliver it's promises is not burying your head. It's just observing fact.

Like SkyNation, you just have your anti-ALPA agenda...what do you think we should do then? Let SAPA continue to do whatever JA and BH dictate?

 

[VeeOne]

Recognizing that ALPA doesn't seem to deliver it's promises is not burying your head. It's just observing fact.

ALPA helped to stem the tide at all the airlines that went into bankruptcy. You are COMPLETELY missing the big picture. The airline managements were seeking deeper cuts than had actually been attained. ALPA fire walled management and kept management from taking more than they did. Besides, it's the pilots and their ELECTED representatives, at their airline, that ultimately made the call to accept the post 9/11 happenings. At least with ALPA they had the option to walk if things were beyond what they were willing to give. Could YOU do that with no union? In regards to ALPA and it's ineptness to deliver on it's promises- wasn't it ALPA that raised the bar for so many years. Look at the ALPA carriers as opposed to the non union carriers and the pay. Profit sharing at Jet Blue.........LOL!!!!!!!! Or maybe even Virgin America or Skybus...............LOL!!!!!!!!!! Honestly, the pay is shameful and I'd rather get out of the business.

You are the first to criticize now, but where will you be in a few years when ALPA raises the stakes and pay once again becomes what it SHOULD be?? Yes, there will be bloodshed and a lot of fighting, but it will happen. Watch, it will be the blood of those with honor, courage, and conviction that bring this industry back- it's pilots like you that sit back and hope for the opportunity to pillage in the hopes to benefit that drag this profession down.

 

[www.]

Yes, but why does SKW remain, all things considered, the leader among the regionals? Proof of this is the simple fact that SKW continues to attract pilots from ALPA represented airlines and many of those pilots report overall improvement rather than a descline in things like QOL, culture, pay and others.

I don't doubt much of what you say but the question remains, why does SKW continue to lead among the regionals?

Lead? Lead what? Your airline is no different from any other. Are you saying that it is so good that pilots don't leave? Come on. Your no better than the next one. They want the quick upgrade and then their gone. The problem with that is DAL has already said that the DCI group will not have any growth, only replacing aircraft with a slightly larger one, i.e.70 seats replace 50 seats.

You have earned nothing. Your boss, JA, has GIVEN you everything you have because he does not want you to have a union so they create SAPA that was totally funded by management. Did it make you feel better? Did it make you feel like you have control? It seems that the mask was removed during the trial and the truth has come out about SAPA.

You state that other pilots come to SKYW and say it's better. You have to ask yourself did they take the time to TRY to improve the conditions at their former airline OR are they the type that sat back and let others control the direction. The "it's all about me" group tend to be lazy. Let someone else do the work, I'll only be here a couple of years.

If JA is such a great guy why doesn't he have a binding agreement with the pilots?

 

[www.]

Recognizing that ALPA doesn't seem to deliver it's promises is not burying your head. It's just observing fact.

What promises? You miss the point and are part of the problem. ALPA is not an office in DC ALPA is every line pilot on a list at an airline. What you get out of ALPA is what YOUR PILOTS PUT IN!

 

[MoreDaysOff]

What promises? You miss the point and are part of the problem. ALPA is not an office in DC ALPA is every line pilot on a list at an airline. What you get out of ALPA is what YOUR PILOTS PUT IN!

Are you saying hundreds of mainline pilots asked to have their retirement dumped?

One of the many ALPA (union) promises is a "legally binding contract." The inference is that if it's in the contract, that makes it water tight. Experience shows that is not the case.

For the record, I'm not part of the problem. For years, I've arrived to work every day dedicated to provide safe and efficient transportation for my passengers.

 

[www.]

1. Are you saying hundreds of mainline pilots asked to have their retirement dumped?

On of the many ALPS (union) promises is a "legally binding contract." The inference is that if it's in the contract, that makes it water tight. Experience shows that is not the case.

2. For the record, I'm not part of the problem. FOr years, I've arrived to work every day dedicated to provide safe and efficient transportation for my passengers.

1. BK. No one, not even creditors, are protected. Don't be naive.

2. That's what every professional should do but I don't see you working with YOUR pilot group to improve things. Part of the problem or part of the solution. Your statement leads me to think that your just doing time.

Leaders lead.

 

[ranger17]

For those of you who think ALPA sold out all the majors that were in bankruptcy heres something that I found out. I was talking to a United alpa guy at one of the Skywest lunches and asked the question about what has ALPA really done for people. He pointed out that while their pilots took a huge loss with loss of pensions and massive paycuts, they did however get a huge settlement of hundreds of millions. They also got an increase to their 401k's to 16% without having to contribute anything, for every $1000 they make they get $160 to their 401k without having to contribute anything. So you say but they still lost their pensions, and took huge paycuts, you are correct. Without ALPA though they would have lost it all and got no payout and no increase to their 401k's and probably have their pay cut even more. Some are talking about how the industry is hurting, but Skywest is making 30 mill a quarter, so explain how we are hurting.

 

[jayme]

Are you saying hundreds of mainline pilots asked to have their retirement dumped?

One of the many ALPA (union) promises is a "legally binding contract." The inference is that if it's in the contract, that makes it water tight. Experience shows that is not the case.

For the record, I'm not part of the problem. For years, I've arrived to work every day dedicated to provide safe and efficient transportation for my passengers.

I guess you have no idea how bankruptcy works. Bankruptcy judges cancelled contracts and upheld the companies motions to dump the pensions.

That is such a tiny loophole that has absolutely no bearing on us at SkyWest. If all hell breaks loose and SkyWest actually files bankruptcy, we'll have MUCH bigger worries than what some judge will rule.

If a company (ANY company) decides to break a contract, the damaged party has a legal right to sue the other party and get a judge to step in and FORCE the offender to live up to their end of the bargain. If (and when) SkyWest breaks the agreement with SAPA, we have NO recourse whatsoever.

 

[Fred Rogers]

For those of you who think ALPA sold out all the majors that were in bankruptcy heres something that I found out. I was talking to a United alpa guy at one of the Skywest lunches and asked the question about what has ALPA really done for people. He pointed out that while their pilots took a huge loss with loss of pensions and massive paycuts, they did however get a huge settlement of hundreds of millions. They also got an increase to their 401k's to 16% without having to contribute anything, for every $1000 they make they get $160 to their 401k without having to contribute anything. So you say but they still lost their pensions, and took huge paycuts, you are correct. Without ALPA though they would have lost it all and got no payout and no increase to their 401k's and probably have their pay cut even more. Some are talking about how the industry is hurting, but Skywest is making 30 mill a quarter, so explain how we are hurting.

This is a very true statement. It's like a football injury. Sure your knee is sprained, but if you wern't wearing that helmet, you would be in a coma.

 

[SkyNation]

Does anyone really believe that the lack of ALPA on property has led to whatever (arguable) problems there are at SKW? Perhaps it's the current nature of the industry.

On the other hand, has the presence of ALPA at other regionals led to all the great things the OC is currently promising for SKW?

very good points. perhaps nothing, it IS because of the industry. in fact, I think I'll change my signature to reflect that truism.

 

[Marsupial]

Yes, but why does SKW remain, all things considered, the leader among the regionals? Proof of this is the simple fact that SKW continues to attract pilots from ALPA represented airlines and many of those pilots report overall improvement rather than a descline in things like QOL, culture, pay and others.

I don't doubt much of what you say but the question remains, why does SKW continue to lead among the regionals?

perhaps the powers that be are keeping things at skywest decent enough for some to consider us one of the 'leaders among regionals' in an attermpt to prevent alpa from being voted on property. but should all the naysayers and anti-unionists get their way and alpa is voted down...well then watch out, the axe may fall and our being a leader will be just a distant memory.

 

[SkyNation]

on the contrary, some of the big wigs will be in LA next week for the SAPA meeting, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're thrown some of bone or goodies.

 

[Marsupial]

that's what i mean. they probably will throw a bone or goodies...kind of like a bribe. they won't take it away again till the vote is over and done with.

 

[SSDD]

It's amazing that you admit that they may throw bone, rather than actually deal with the problems, but that's ok with you.

 

[jayme]

very good points. perhaps nothing, it IS because of the industry. in fact, I think I'll change my signature to reflect that truism.

No, those points are idiotic.

The problems at SkyWest are that QOL and compensation are slowly eroding. That is indisputable. If we had a contract that whole time it would have been ILLEGAL for company to make those changes.

EVERY INDUSTRY wants to minimize costs and maximize profits. There is nothing magical about this industry that makes it necessary to treat the employees worse than any other industry. In fact, this highly profitable company has absolutely NO reason to be nickle-and-diming us to death.

And ONCE AGAIN, you introduce the retarded argument that ALPA is making pie-in-the-sky promises. IT'S NOT HAPPENING!!!! Show me ONE such promise from a credible union OC member!

 

[MYFpilot]

And ONCE AGAIN, you introduce the retarded argument that ALPA is making pie-in-the-sky promises. IT'S NOT HAPPENING!!!! Show me ONE such promise from a credible union OC member!

Good Point!! In-fact here's EXACTLY what the OC is promising at SkyWest...

1. Skywest pilots will promote safety in our practices, policies and in our contract and will join efforts with management to have Skywest Airlines achieve the finest safety record in the airline industry.

2. Our relationship with management will provide clear statements and understandings of the contractual rights and responsibilities of both parties. We will promote a positive atmosphere and a constructive labor relations environment that respects different points of view and recognizes the importance of a healthy and growing company. We will seek to resolve any disputes or
differences in a fair and timely manner.

3. Compensation, work rules, benefits and job security will recognize the substantial contribution that pilots make to the company’s success and will make employment at Skywest a realistic and rewarding choice for our careers.

4. Pilot leadership will seek input and involvement from members; our practices will be open, inclusive and democratic; and, we will recruit and train future leaders to carry forward these values. We will represent our members professionally and effectively.

5. Our pilot group will participate actively in our Association and seek opportunities to work constructively for the good of our profession and for a stronger Association.


Seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[HelloNewman]

This is a very true statement. It's like a football injury. Sure your knee is sprained, but if you wern't wearing that helmet, you would be in a coma.

Go away freddie, how about you lick your wounds from losing the colgan drive. ALPA steals 2% of your paycheck period end of sentance. This is big reason why it wont pass at SkyWest. BTW you are invited to my goodbye ALPA BBQ. It may have to be held in New Jersey but I hope to find a way to make it work in chicago.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Skynation- although I'm on the other side of the argument, I'll at least give ya props for some of your points.

The way I see it, 9-11 changed everything. I was fairly new to the 121 side of airplanes. The majors were hiring like crazy ( probably the only way my dumbass got hired).

But even then I was looking around and asking myself how the majors planned on sustaining all this growth. Came as no surprise to me when the furloughs went through the roof.

I'm old enough to remember the CAL/UAL strikes. I didn't need "Flying The Line" to explain it to me. CEO's who run unchecked start to act as if it's a big Monopoly game and God help you if they get Boardwalk and the hotels.

I was anti-union when I first came here too. I have just seen the QOL slip too far. I do want a raise, but not at the expense of crippling the Co. My dog in this fight is QOL.

I voted for the new SAPA President. I have ZERO faith in SAPA, but I voted. Did you?

The new President of Skywest has been here about 5 yrs. JA won't be around forever, and this guy will do what almost every CEO in history has done. (GET HIS). And whether or not you like BH it's his job to not give us any more than he's forced to. SAPA has no negotiaing power.

You can ask what a union has done for regionals. I think the better question would be "What would some regionals be without one?" Mesa- who's CEO would have you chained in a cave on your 1 DAY off comes to mind...

 

[SSDD]

By the time this actually comes to a vote, this thread will be about 100 pages long. Mostly from rehashing the same issues with the likes of Skynation and Hellonewman.

 

[SkyNation]

yeah, and the same rehashing doesn't come from you, jayme, Gr82 and all the others? sheesh

let's have the stupid vote and move on. I'll still be very surprised if it passes