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Skywest again;)
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SnowBoardBum
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 46
I hate to post this but it looks like there is a good chance that newhire pilots will not be getting paid for training anymore. Furthermore the company is also looking at making newhires pay for their own hotels, or having double occupancy rooms available at best.
Again, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but on the flipside you could be upgrading a year later in the EMB if you want to.
Good Luck!
Again, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but on the flipside you could be upgrading a year later in the EMB if you want to.
Good Luck!
Andy Neill
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,293
othello
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 217
HMM sounds like a rumor to me.
"there is a good chance that newhire pilots will not be getting paid for training anymore. Furthermore the company is also looking at making newhires pay for their own hotels",
If the above quote come true, this seems like a Real good reason for the SkyWest pilot group to unionize.
It sound like some thing you would exspect from G. lakes or Mesa.
First go's the newhire pay and hotel next you loose ???
Don't let it happen.
O
"there is a good chance that newhire pilots will not be getting paid for training anymore. Furthermore the company is also looking at making newhires pay for their own hotels",
If the above quote come true, this seems like a Real good reason for the SkyWest pilot group to unionize.
It sound like some thing you would exspect from G. lakes or Mesa.
First go's the newhire pay and hotel next you loose ???
Don't let it happen.
O
GuppyPuppy
Living the Dream
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 803
"If the above quote come true, this seems like a Real good reason for the SkyWest pilot group to unionize. ".....othello
Spoken like a truly uninformed person!
I was hired by SkyWest in 1996. We weren't paid a dime until we completed our checkride in the airplane. Furthermore, we were not put up in a hotel room by the company. We found our own hotel rooms (many of us, including me, shared hotel rooms to cut down on expenses). SkyWest did provide hotel rooms while at simulator training (mine was in SEA).
So, instead of being grateful for what SkyWest has provided for the past 5-6 years (pay and free rooms while in training) you get ticked off because they are trying to save a bit of money. IF this rumor is true, I would think they are just trying to save money due to the ongoing struggles with United.
To suggest that the pilot group at SkyWest should unionize over this is just plain ignorant. The pilots at SkyWest are among the happiest pilots in the regional airline industry (my personal experience and observations). Their pay and benefits are at or near the top of the industry and their equipment is top notch. All this without a union!!! My belief is that the ONLY "benefit" of SkyWest pilots voting in a union is that they will lose 1.95% of their pay to union dues.
Take a good hard look at what ALPA did to the pilots at Emery Worldwide Airlines. They got royally screwed by ALPA. Do a search on this board and visit www.emerycrew.org
In my experience, ALPA cares most for the pilot groups who bring in the most money. Thier efforts are concentrated on UA, DL, US, NW, etc... Do a search on this forum and try to see how many regional pilots support ALPA. I'd bet most of them don't support ALPA at a regional carrier.
From my own personal experience, SkyWest was a great company to work at, even without the newhire pay and free hotel rooms. If I remember, we had to pay for our uniforms too!!!
When I was hired at United in 2000, we had to pay for our own hotel rooms and pay for half of our uniforms. When I worked for Emery Worldwide hotel rooms were provided AND we were paid while in training AND our uniforms were paid for by the company. Would you say that Emery would have been a better place to work than United???
Hired at Emery in '97...no union at the time. Paid while in training, paid uniforms, free hotel room.
Hired at United in '00...ALPA. Paid while in training, no hotel room, paid for half of uniforms. Maybe you should compare United to Great Lakes and Mesa now!
Yeah, the union made it all better!
SkyWest...no union. Pay and benefits at or near the top of the industry.
Mesa....ALPA. Pay and benefits at or near the bottom of the industry.
Yup....SkyWest sure does need a union!!!
Have I convinced you yet?
Cheers!
GP
Spoken like a truly uninformed person!
I was hired by SkyWest in 1996. We weren't paid a dime until we completed our checkride in the airplane. Furthermore, we were not put up in a hotel room by the company. We found our own hotel rooms (many of us, including me, shared hotel rooms to cut down on expenses). SkyWest did provide hotel rooms while at simulator training (mine was in SEA).
So, instead of being grateful for what SkyWest has provided for the past 5-6 years (pay and free rooms while in training) you get ticked off because they are trying to save a bit of money. IF this rumor is true, I would think they are just trying to save money due to the ongoing struggles with United.
To suggest that the pilot group at SkyWest should unionize over this is just plain ignorant. The pilots at SkyWest are among the happiest pilots in the regional airline industry (my personal experience and observations). Their pay and benefits are at or near the top of the industry and their equipment is top notch. All this without a union!!! My belief is that the ONLY "benefit" of SkyWest pilots voting in a union is that they will lose 1.95% of their pay to union dues.
Take a good hard look at what ALPA did to the pilots at Emery Worldwide Airlines. They got royally screwed by ALPA. Do a search on this board and visit www.emerycrew.org
In my experience, ALPA cares most for the pilot groups who bring in the most money. Thier efforts are concentrated on UA, DL, US, NW, etc... Do a search on this forum and try to see how many regional pilots support ALPA. I'd bet most of them don't support ALPA at a regional carrier.
From my own personal experience, SkyWest was a great company to work at, even without the newhire pay and free hotel rooms. If I remember, we had to pay for our uniforms too!!!
When I was hired at United in 2000, we had to pay for our own hotel rooms and pay for half of our uniforms. When I worked for Emery Worldwide hotel rooms were provided AND we were paid while in training AND our uniforms were paid for by the company. Would you say that Emery would have been a better place to work than United???
Hired at Emery in '97...no union at the time. Paid while in training, paid uniforms, free hotel room.
Hired at United in '00...ALPA. Paid while in training, no hotel room, paid for half of uniforms. Maybe you should compare United to Great Lakes and Mesa now!
Yeah, the union made it all better!
SkyWest...no union. Pay and benefits at or near the top of the industry.
Mesa....ALPA. Pay and benefits at or near the bottom of the industry.
Yup....SkyWest sure does need a union!!!
Have I convinced you yet?
Cheers!
GP
othello
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 217
Wow I hit a nerve there.
I didn't mention one thing about ALPA in my post, and Mr puppy takes the liberty to write a 9 paragraph anti ALPA spiel.
I am sorry Emery didn't work out for you, But do you really think they went under because they were ALPA members?
Also comparing SkyWest newhires to those at UAL seems to be a stretch as well. SkyWest newhires will be lucky to pull in 20k there first year online, while UAL will make 3 times that at least and in genral are in a much better financial situation to be able to afford 2-4 month with out pay pending how long trainning takes. I don't know to many Cfi's that could afford to go to SkyWest with no pay until trainning is completed.
You also mention in 1996 SkyWest didn't pay you for trainning well in 1996 a lot of places were Pay For Training and for the most part thankfully that has almost dissapared from our industry.
The point of my 1st post was that "The pilots at SkyWest are among the happiest pilots in the regional airline industry" I fully agree with you. I have many friends that love working over there that say the same thing.
But taking away the little pay that a first year SkyWest FO will make during trainning would be a big step backwards.
What's next bring back PFT? That will not only save the company the 300$ a week that newhire get paid. But they can get the sim bill payed at the same time.
SkyWest is a whole lot bigger than they where when you went in the mid 90's, 1500 and growing by leaps and bounds. A Union may well help protect all the good things SkyWest pilot have.
O
Just my opinion. Calling me "a truly uninformed person" is un called for.
best of luck at UAL.
I didn't mention one thing about ALPA in my post, and Mr puppy takes the liberty to write a 9 paragraph anti ALPA spiel.
I am sorry Emery didn't work out for you, But do you really think they went under because they were ALPA members?
Also comparing SkyWest newhires to those at UAL seems to be a stretch as well. SkyWest newhires will be lucky to pull in 20k there first year online, while UAL will make 3 times that at least and in genral are in a much better financial situation to be able to afford 2-4 month with out pay pending how long trainning takes. I don't know to many Cfi's that could afford to go to SkyWest with no pay until trainning is completed.
You also mention in 1996 SkyWest didn't pay you for trainning well in 1996 a lot of places were Pay For Training and for the most part thankfully that has almost dissapared from our industry.
The point of my 1st post was that "The pilots at SkyWest are among the happiest pilots in the regional airline industry" I fully agree with you. I have many friends that love working over there that say the same thing.
But taking away the little pay that a first year SkyWest FO will make during trainning would be a big step backwards.
What's next bring back PFT? That will not only save the company the 300$ a week that newhire get paid. But they can get the sim bill payed at the same time.
SkyWest is a whole lot bigger than they where when you went in the mid 90's, 1500 and growing by leaps and bounds. A Union may well help protect all the good things SkyWest pilot have.
O
Just my opinion. Calling me "a truly uninformed person" is un called for.
best of luck at UAL.
GuppyPuppy
Living the Dream
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 803
othello..."Wow I hit a nerve there."
Well, I guess you did. Sorry for the rant and rave.
othello..."I am sorry Emery didn't work out for you, But do you really think they went under because they were ALPA members?"
Well, luckily I got out before EWA closed its doors. I believe that EWA was shut down by CNF to bust the union. This was their way of ensuring that all its airfreight was contracted out. This is exactly what UPS was doing in the '80's, until all the contractors got together to form UPS's airline. Unfortunately it didn't work at Emery. Although I don't think ALPA was to blame for EWA going out of business, had ALPA (or another union) not been on the property, EWA might still be in business, but possibly at the end of their rope. Personally, I'm glad they're shut down. I didn't want to see any more friends get killed or seriously injured. If you'd like to start an Emery thread I'd be glad to share some more opinions, facts and theories as to why EWA shut down. ALPA "screwed" the EWA pilots by removing the ELECTED MEC leadership and placing their own "leader" of the group. EWA pilots got two-weeks of severance pay, when they should have received nearly three years of pay (the time remaining on their contract).
I will say that any company that has a union on the property deserves one. I don't think that SkyWest management has treated the pilot group so poorly as to necessitate a union, even if the rumor about not getting paid while in training is true.
ALPA has done a lot of good in the industry that all pilots benefit from. At UA, we enjoy the benefits of decades of negotiations. However, we also suffer from them. It was recently posted that United pilots average 427 hours per year. I don't know if that is fact, but even if the number is close this is a travesty. In order to have a successful company, its employees need to be productive. I hope that the union sees this and votes in favor of some needed changes in regards to productivity.
ALPA (or another union) is not the cure-all that many people believe. Again, I will point to Mesa, an ALPA carrier. Substandard pay and benefits. SkyWest, non-union. Above standard pay and benefits.
Pardon my "anti-ALPA" remarks. Yes, I am upset with them about the treatment of the Emery pilots. And I don't think SkyWest pilots would be better off with a union, but that's my personal opinion. If I ever work for SkyWest again, I can cast my vote at the appropriate time.
othello..."Calling me "a truly uninformed person" is un called for."
You're right. I don't know you. Please accept my apologies. I guess we can agree to disagree on this matter (about whether SkyWest needs a union). This is not the place for name calling and I'll try to be more civil next time.
Cheers!
GP
Well, I guess you did. Sorry for the rant and rave.
othello..."I am sorry Emery didn't work out for you, But do you really think they went under because they were ALPA members?"
Well, luckily I got out before EWA closed its doors. I believe that EWA was shut down by CNF to bust the union. This was their way of ensuring that all its airfreight was contracted out. This is exactly what UPS was doing in the '80's, until all the contractors got together to form UPS's airline. Unfortunately it didn't work at Emery. Although I don't think ALPA was to blame for EWA going out of business, had ALPA (or another union) not been on the property, EWA might still be in business, but possibly at the end of their rope. Personally, I'm glad they're shut down. I didn't want to see any more friends get killed or seriously injured. If you'd like to start an Emery thread I'd be glad to share some more opinions, facts and theories as to why EWA shut down. ALPA "screwed" the EWA pilots by removing the ELECTED MEC leadership and placing their own "leader" of the group. EWA pilots got two-weeks of severance pay, when they should have received nearly three years of pay (the time remaining on their contract).
I will say that any company that has a union on the property deserves one. I don't think that SkyWest management has treated the pilot group so poorly as to necessitate a union, even if the rumor about not getting paid while in training is true.
ALPA has done a lot of good in the industry that all pilots benefit from. At UA, we enjoy the benefits of decades of negotiations. However, we also suffer from them. It was recently posted that United pilots average 427 hours per year. I don't know if that is fact, but even if the number is close this is a travesty. In order to have a successful company, its employees need to be productive. I hope that the union sees this and votes in favor of some needed changes in regards to productivity.
ALPA (or another union) is not the cure-all that many people believe. Again, I will point to Mesa, an ALPA carrier. Substandard pay and benefits. SkyWest, non-union. Above standard pay and benefits.
Pardon my "anti-ALPA" remarks. Yes, I am upset with them about the treatment of the Emery pilots. And I don't think SkyWest pilots would be better off with a union, but that's my personal opinion. If I ever work for SkyWest again, I can cast my vote at the appropriate time.
othello..."Calling me "a truly uninformed person" is un called for."
You're right. I don't know you. Please accept my apologies. I guess we can agree to disagree on this matter (about whether SkyWest needs a union). This is not the place for name calling and I'll try to be more civil next time.
Cheers!
GP
Last edited:
Andy,
I hope your right, but after reading the latest on i-share it seems doubtful. Personally, I wouldn't mind doubling up when I go to RJ training if it would keep a fellow SW pilot from having to fork out his/her own dough.
On the other side I think it says alot when the top 3 officers in the company talk about pay cuts they begin with a 20% paycut for themselves, & they don't cut the pilots pay.
I hope your right, but after reading the latest on i-share it seems doubtful. Personally, I wouldn't mind doubling up when I go to RJ training if it would keep a fellow SW pilot from having to fork out his/her own dough.
On the other side I think it says alot when the top 3 officers in the company talk about pay cuts they begin with a 20% paycut for themselves, & they don't cut the pilots pay.
Wowjack
I love Bro...,but I go RJ
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 148
double up
It's easy to double in rooms when you have your best friend going to school with you. It also helps when you have friends who will support you with a place to stay while in training. Management will dig deep in their own pockets before it tries to push the burden on the workforce...now that's the markings of a great company, and I'm sticking by it.
It's easy to double in rooms when you have your best friend going to school with you. It also helps when you have friends who will support you with a place to stay while in training. Management will dig deep in their own pockets before it tries to push the burden on the workforce...now that's the markings of a great company, and I'm sticking by it.
RightBettor
Betting "Don't" these day
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 308
Back in the days...
I too went to SkyWest in 1996 and did not have the luxury of a paid-for-hotel room. However, here's an interesting idea. When I went through training at SkyWest a handful of us stayed at a hostel just south of downtown SLC. It was called the "Ute Hostel" (don't know if they're still around... could've turned into a crack house for all I know.)
You'll need wheels to get to/from training, but if one or two guys has a car, then you can carpool. We were able to stock groceries in the kitchen and cook our dinners as opposed to eating at a hotel "greasy spoon." You'd be amazed how much money you can save by buying groceries. The hostel charged $88/week for a bed. We all kind of made it a fun experience, studied together, cooked dinners together, drank "Utah" beer on the weekends (not much kick to it
), and met lots of nice people.
I don't know if this is going to be an issue or not, but if this is true about the hotel rooms, then the hostel may be an option worth looking into.
I too went to SkyWest in 1996 and did not have the luxury of a paid-for-hotel room. However, here's an interesting idea. When I went through training at SkyWest a handful of us stayed at a hostel just south of downtown SLC. It was called the "Ute Hostel" (don't know if they're still around... could've turned into a crack house for all I know.)
You'll need wheels to get to/from training, but if one or two guys has a car, then you can carpool. We were able to stock groceries in the kitchen and cook our dinners as opposed to eating at a hotel "greasy spoon." You'd be amazed how much money you can save by buying groceries. The hostel charged $88/week for a bed. We all kind of made it a fun experience, studied together, cooked dinners together, drank "Utah" beer on the weekends (not much kick to it
), and met lots of nice people.I don't know if this is going to be an issue or not, but if this is true about the hotel rooms, then the hostel may be an option worth looking into.
Rogue5
Adult Swim junkie
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 882
Just heard today that the guys interviewing yesterday for the March class were told not to expect pay during training.
I think they're still gonna put you up in the hotel but they may have to double up...
Everybody has to tighten their belts a little in these strange days. I have no doubt that SkyWest is still the best place around.
I think they're still gonna put you up in the hotel but they may have to double up...
Everybody has to tighten their belts a little in these strange days. I have no doubt that SkyWest is still the best place around.
pa34driver
mmmmmmk
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
- Posts
- 35
New hires should get a room, and paid. If they do it to pilots, they should do it to everybody. Rampers, CSR's, Flight Attendents, everybody. I also don't think that they should cut pilots pay either. They already don't make that much, and management knows this. That is why regionals make it. Thats what I see.
SkyWest in trouble?
Is SkyWest in trouble? I don't think so, I believe these and other precautions recently ie: charging for United WYO, intentionally understaffing the EMB-120 pilot staff in order to save some bucks, while placing a good amount of stress on it's pilot force (which could have been remedy very easily by running classes that were scheduled for last summer on time instead of waiting last second by delaying the classes until fall). In addition to cutting new hire training pay and bed buddy funds are just ways to put money into a war chest so SkyWest can make it through a time when it would probably be good to just let the dust settle, as opposed to buying multiple RJ's per month.
If SkyWest can afford to put several RJ's on line per month I think it can afford to pay $8000 a month to 30 starving new hire FO's! I realize that things were different back in the day but so was SkyWest, I am very thankful to have been paid the little amount I was during training and I feel I was treated very well throughout the ordeal, but the 65 hours X $19.02 I was paid for what turned out to be about 6.5 weeks was not only a financial boost but I think it helps with morale to know you are at least getting a little something.
I suppose today SkyWest could find a stack of folks that would even PFT to get into a EMB-120 but I think it is a nice touch the way their training department takes care of new hires and it gets things off to a nice start! I don't think it is such a good idea for a small company filling such big shoes in the days to come to put a dirty taste in the mouths of new FO's by taking away something that was just recently a benefit of their peers...
SkyWest has made it a long time without a union and hopefully it will stay that way!!!!! But there seems to be some unhappy folks recently and this move won't improve their side of the vote, maybe they should just kick down the $ for training and make everyone happy...it may save them the same amount or more in dealing with a union in the future.
Is SkyWest in trouble? I don't think so, I believe these and other precautions recently ie: charging for United WYO, intentionally understaffing the EMB-120 pilot staff in order to save some bucks, while placing a good amount of stress on it's pilot force (which could have been remedy very easily by running classes that were scheduled for last summer on time instead of waiting last second by delaying the classes until fall). In addition to cutting new hire training pay and bed buddy funds are just ways to put money into a war chest so SkyWest can make it through a time when it would probably be good to just let the dust settle, as opposed to buying multiple RJ's per month.
If SkyWest can afford to put several RJ's on line per month I think it can afford to pay $8000 a month to 30 starving new hire FO's! I realize that things were different back in the day but so was SkyWest, I am very thankful to have been paid the little amount I was during training and I feel I was treated very well throughout the ordeal, but the 65 hours X $19.02 I was paid for what turned out to be about 6.5 weeks was not only a financial boost but I think it helps with morale to know you are at least getting a little something.
I suppose today SkyWest could find a stack of folks that would even PFT to get into a EMB-120 but I think it is a nice touch the way their training department takes care of new hires and it gets things off to a nice start! I don't think it is such a good idea for a small company filling such big shoes in the days to come to put a dirty taste in the mouths of new FO's by taking away something that was just recently a benefit of their peers...
SkyWest has made it a long time without a union and hopefully it will stay that way!!!!! But there seems to be some unhappy folks recently and this move won't improve their side of the vote, maybe they should just kick down the $ for training and make everyone happy...it may save them the same amount or more in dealing with a union in the future.
MONKEY
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
- Posts
- 150
IF SKYWEST NEEDS TO SAVE MONEY
If Skywest needs to save money, who would it be better to take it out on? The pilots who have proven themselves and have flown for Skywest for some time, or the new guy looking to get on board? It is an interesting thought. I know that Skywest is not union, but it seems as though many unions or in Skywest's case pilot groups, see it necessary to pay pilots while in training. I agree that it is good to do so. But the not so caring side of me says I would rather have a bigger paycheck, and let the new guy get paid once he's paid his dues with Skywest.
any thoughts?
If Skywest needs to save money, who would it be better to take it out on? The pilots who have proven themselves and have flown for Skywest for some time, or the new guy looking to get on board? It is an interesting thought. I know that Skywest is not union, but it seems as though many unions or in Skywest's case pilot groups, see it necessary to pay pilots while in training. I agree that it is good to do so. But the not so caring side of me says I would rather have a bigger paycheck, and let the new guy get paid once he's paid his dues with Skywest.
any thoughts?
WhiteCloud
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2002
- Posts
- 1,012
<If Skywest needs to save money, who would it be better to take it out on? The pilots who have proven themselves and have flown for Skywest for some time, or the new guy looking to get on board? >
OK Monkey...the answer is neither. Run the business better and make some money is the only answer. They will take it from you if they can and new hires are the way it always starts.
OK Monkey...the answer is neither. Run the business better and make some money is the only answer. They will take it from you if they can and new hires are the way it always starts.
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