Skywest again;)

[WhiteCloud]

<Even if we were union we couldn't do much about this as pilot's don't become union members until they finish class at the earliest>

Fly safe!

 

[Two-9-9-TwoSet]

Guppy Puppy

Are you one of those guys who blame the demise of West Air on ALPA too??

You speak about someone being "misinformed"...well, Let ME inform you this...ALPA is not the lastest subject at SkyWest.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Quote.....

"Are you one of those guys who blame the demise of West Air on ALPA too??

You speak about someone being "misinformed"...well, Let ME inform you this...ALPA is not the lastest subject at SkyWest."

....Two-9-9-Twoset

What does "lastest subject" mean?

You seem to insinuate that I blame the demise of EWA on ALPA. If that is an accusation, apparently I need to re-assert my position. CNF closed the doors on Emery in violation of EWA's pilots agreement with EWA and CNF. I am upset with ALPA because the pilots got only two weeks of severance pay when they should have been paid out on the remainder of their contract. Make no mistake about it, it was CNF who finally closed the doors on EWA, not the FAA. The FAA got the ball rolling when they asked EWA to surrender their certificate in Aug. '01. EWA had a green light later that fall from the FAA, but CNF pulled the plug and decided to contract out all of their lift.

I just heard on the radio that the recently fired coach of the SF 49ers, Steve Mariucci (sp?), will be paid out on the remainder of his contract, even though his employment was terminated early. This only seems fair since it was a contract. The same should be applied to the EWA pilots.

ALPA has removed the elected EWA MEC and placed a "custodian" in charge of the EWA case. Once again, I encourage you to visit:

www.emerycrew.org

See what ALPA has done for the EWA crewmembers lately.

As far as Westair...I never worked there and am not familiar with their plight, so I won't comment on their case.

And, back to the original thread...SkyWest management took a 20% paycut, but didn't cut pay or benefits for the pilots. Only the new-hire pay has been cut out. In my opinion this is not reason enough to form a union.

Cheers!

GP

 

[Beechnut]

Even if we were union we couldn't do much about this as pilot's don't become union members until they finish class at the earliest.

That isn't true. The Almighty Evil ALPA at AirWis has specific language in our contract regarding new hire pay. You may be on probation, but you are a pilot and a member of the "team" (a feel good word that is kind of silly) from the moment you show up for initial training.

AirWis, like many others, pays new hires their aircraft's first year rate and they cover the single occupancy hotel room.

S.

 

[embdrvr]

[BAnd, back to the original thread...SkyWest management took a 20% paycut, but didn't cut pay or benefits for the pilots. [/B]

I wish that kind of thinking would spread to the rest of the industry. Everywhere else the cuts seem to start at the bottom. Pretty amazing when you consider that Sky West is one of the few (only?) non-union Pt 121 pax airlines.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

The fact that SkyWest management took a 20% pay cut has to be taken with a grain of salt. That's a 20% pay cut from their salary but doesn't include stock options and bonuses which I understand make up the great majority of their overall compensation.

 

[skypine69]

OK, here is the deal..... Skywest management knows that they can save money by not paying newhires. THey also know that there are plenty of pilots out there who will go with out the pay. I did it 4 years ago. that dont make it right. THey pay rampers. mechanics, CS etc because they know that they could never hire someone for those positions and not pay them for the training they do. SKywest is taking advantage of the current situation to try and help their bottom line. If they cant afford to pay our employees they should not be expanding. Its that simple. I am considering quitting over this deal. It means that much to me that my fellow pilots out there are being asked to work their arse off for 6 weeks with no pay while we have 2 houseboats sitting down on lake powell for the corp officers to use.
This is so wrong. it makes me sick to my stomach. and yes the fact that we have no union is the reason they are able to do this. we have a policy that dictates the training pay for newhires. if it was a legal contract they would not be able to violate it without it costing even more money in lawyer fees when we grieve it and win!

My opinion.....if you have a class date or interview date with SKywest Airlines....do not show up. Dont bother to call either. They dont care enough about you so dont show them any consideration.

 

[embdrvr]

I am considering quitting over this deal. It means that much to me that my fellow pilots out there are being asked to work their arse off for 6 weeks with no pay while we have 2 houseboats sitting down on lake powell for the corp officers to use.

You sound pretty unhappy. Perhaps quitting would be the best thing for you. Maybe you could get a fresh start with a company that doesn't have houseboats.

You also sound like you want to hurt the company as evidenced by your statements - "don't show up, don't call etc." Of course you probably don't like your coworkers because they will be the ones working overtime if classes don't get filled. I'm sure Sky West isn't hiring people just so pilots have more seniority.

I forgot to ask you SkyPine, are you a ramper, FA, gate agent, or what?

 

[embdrvr]

The fact that SkyWest management took a 20% pay cut has to be taken with a grain of salt. That's a 20% pay cut from their salary but doesn't include stock options and bonuses which I understand make up the great majority of their overall compensation.

I don't know their compensation details but even if it's symbolic it says a lot for the company IMHO.

 

[Sky-doggie]

I recently heard this news and Yes it is frustrating for people who are coming from instructing, furloughs, etc. who are already broke!!!

I too heard of a guy turning down a class date because of this and while I would not want to be in their shoes especially if they have a family to support, I would still take the job if I could manage it!

Things are tough right now, and I had been looking for a job for over a year before getting on at SkyWest, and SkyWest has been great so far! I'm just glad I got through training when I did!!!
Right now I'm feeling very lucky! I think they are doing everything they can to cut costs. They are taking away everything from free coffee and cable in crew lounges on down but I think it is being done to show our major partners that we can keep costs down.
not to screw the working man.....

They need pilots bad right now!!! There seems to be a lot of movement and I don't think any of us will be sitting on reserve for long if at all.....

So, don't give up hope people! I just don't think any place is totally safe these days!!! But you have to make your moves carfully in this business and the guys who can't make the jump now I do feel bad for........

As far as a union? Well it is possible that it will come true some day, but will it help the company or hurt it I cannot say because I've never been a member of one? But union or not the company still has to make a profit if it wants to stay in business! ECON. 101

I'm really wondering what SAPA's position is on this and I wonder if they plan to stick out their necks for the new hires?

Good Luck!!!
skydog

 

[larry]

http://www.skywestpilot.com/interview/be

From http://www.skywestpilot.com/interview/bens.html

New Hire Training Pay
From the first day of class pilots will receive the following pay.
$19.02 per flight hour
65 hour/month guarantee based on a five day work week while in all phases of training until reaching IOE.
Hotel accommodations will be provided while attending training.
IOE pay increases the guarantee to 75 hour/month

It would be a bummer if they wern't doing that anymore, and if someone from skywest is reading you guys should update the website.

 

[Finch]

Good point Larry! The board that Jim Black used to run was great..........the regular web site for pilots me thinks has been forgotten. For that matter, my aps on line since 2000 are in the same catagory too.

More coffee?

Keep the faith,

Finch

 

[inthepool]

I'm in the pool at ACA and in training we receive $200 per week and no lodging. In other words, not enough to survive on if you don't have a free place to stay in Dulles. Truth be told I would accept a class date whether I got paid in training or not. I can't wait to join the airline ranks, but I'm also single, and I don't have large loan payments etc. to pay off. In this economy, in this industry, I'm just happy to be one of the guys with an offer rather than one of the guys flipping burgers.

 

[Mayday911]

The above post is one of the reasons that the vast majority of regional pilots get paid and treated like they do.

Inthepool writes, "I can't wait to join the airline ranks", well I think that you should wait to join and refuse to work for slave wages. Comair goes on strike to help not only themselves but the pilots of regional airlines throughout the country, and then companies like Freedom start up and spineless pilots beat down their door to work for them. Not to mention Big Sky taking a totally concessionary contract in order to get jets when they knew full well that Mesaba pilots are in negotiations to help raise the bar. I am not in the pool at Skywest nor do I want to work there, but I definetly agree with the post from the guy who is no longer going to take the job because they lied to him. Thats right, they lied to him and all other applicants.

We all need to work together to get rid of the bottom feeders.

Mayday

 

[skypine69]

Mayday,

Agree with you there! Too many pilots out there are willing to whore themselves out to get started. Nothing wrong with starting at the bottom, but.....AS A PILOT YOU ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE! Demand to be compensated for that service. YOu have spent time and money to get the point that you can provide that service.

EMB...
You are wrong about me. I love this company and my job. I have been here for over 10 years. The difference is that I have not drank the kool-aid that gets passed out down in SGU. I think what irritates me so much is that this company has the potential to be a GREAT company. Instead thy screw around with the way they handle people and situations and stay at the good company level.

Our officers said that no employee making under 30K would take a pay cut. A new hire pilot makes under 30K. Why the double standard?

 

[avrodriver]

Not trying to start anything here, but in your post Mayday you rip on inthepool for going to ACA, but then try and praise Comair for raising the bar........well Comair raised the bar (new contract) for thier new hires to the almost the exact same thing $240 a week and no hotel. Even our old contract (1996) that we are still working under pays new hires the min 75hr guarantee with hotel, but then again my airline isn't exactly the place to be right now, but that follows into the fact that we are willing to take it in the shorts to go to certain companies

I will agree with you though, this exploitation of new hires is bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. Anyone who says "they are just trying to cut costs", save it!! I don't want to hear it. I'm a professional, treat me like one, the first year payscales are insulting enough. Why is it the first year I start somewhere my worth is $21./hr, but then over the course of a year my worth jumps all the way to $34, but then every other year efter that just dollar raises to follow. Flame away......AD

 

[MetroSheriff]

OK Monkey...the answer is neither. Run the business better and make some money is the only answer. They will take it from you if they can and new hires are the way it always starts.

Ziggy,

If you were talking about AMR or UAL I would agree whole heartedly. When you make the argument with reference to SkyWest, it diesn't hold water.

SkyWest is likely the best run regional airline in the industry. To claim SkyWest is mismanaged is laughable. The other DCI carriers could stand to learn a thing or two about the quality of service that SkyWest manages to consistently provide.

That being said, the new policy sucks. It won't slow anyone down though. Just 4 years ago thousands of pilots were paying for the training. There are plenty more out there. This is just the beginning. I said it months ago. PFT will be rearing its' ugly head before too long.

 

[dogg]

At what point is a SkyWest pilot considered to be an employee. There are several states that require an employee be compensated federal per-diem or minimum wage(which ever is higher) if an employee is required to perform a benefit(and training falls under that) for the company and that benefit occurs more than 50 miles away from the employees base of employment. I cannot find the reference that pertained to this but I have read it in the past.....

 

[WhiteCloud]

Ziggy,

If you were talking about AMR or UAL I would agree whole heartedly. When you make the argument with reference to SkyWest, it diesn't hold water.

SkyWest is likely the best run regional airline in the industry. To claim SkyWest is mismanaged is laughable.>

Hey MetroSheriff, You got me out of context a little. I have no idea how well Skywest is run or not run. I was responding to the premise that (to paraphrase) "IF Skywest needs to make cutbacks who should pay the price...Pilots that have been with the company or newhires". Neither group should have to work for free regardless of the need to make cuts. Frankly, if it's Skywest's desire to remain non-union they just shot themselves in the foot. Ziggy1

 

[MetroSheriff]

Ziggy,

If you were talking about AMR or UAL I would agree whole heartedly. When you make the argument with reference to SkyWest, it diesn't hold water.

SkyWest is likely the best run regional airline in the industry. To claim SkyWest is mismanaged is laughable.>

Hey MetroSheriff, You got me out of context a little. I have no idea how well Skywest is run or not run. I was responding to the premise that (to paraphrase) "IF Skywest needs to make cutbacks who should pay the price...Pilots that have been with the company or newhires". Neither group should have to work for free regardless of the need to make cuts. Frankly, if it's Skywest's desire to remain non-union they just shot themselves in the foot. Ziggy1

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Mayday911]

My post wasn't intended to chastise anyone from going to ACA, that is why I didn't mention any particular airline in my previous post. It is the attitude that I take issue with, the attitude that says I will take anything in order to fly "bigger" airplanes...anything including what sometimes seems like nothing. Gone are the days when some can think that the flight time is some sort of compensation because it will help you move up to the majors. It is time to foght for what we all deserve. The new pilots coming into this industry need to be educated on pilot labor issues and alot of the crap that happens in this industry.

Mayday.

 

[Extender]

Employee??

> At what point is a SkyWest pilot considered to be an
> employee. There are several states that require an
> employee be compensated federal per-diem or
> minimum wage....

Hmm, interesting point. I wonder if one could still collect Unemployment Benefits from their home state under such conditions. Flight privileges don't even kick in until the 31st day of "employment." So the only "compensation" a new pilot employee would get is training and a shared hotel room, but no money until the checkride is complete.

 

[embdrvr]

EMB...
You are wrong about me. I love this company and my job. I have been here for over 10 years.

Our officers said that no employee making under 30K would take a pay cut. A new hire pilot makes under 30K. Why the double standard?

Your previous post did not sound like it was written by someone who loves their company. That is why I called you on it.
I don't know the details of the pay cuts well enough to discuss them. All I heard was that they started at the top which is much different than what I have observed eleswhere.
What's your position at Sky West?

 

[inthepool]

Mayday, please don't take me as one of those people who would sell out their mother to fly a jet. I never even considered sending Freedumb a resume due to their policies which amount to grand theft. My point was this: As someone who has dreamed of being in this profession since I was 5, that time has finaly come. Unfortunately, the realities of our industry are that there are huge numbers of qualified applicants and extremely limited oppurtunities. That means if I don't do it for $200 a month in training, someone else will for sure. Don't think for a minute Skywest will have any trouble filling it's classes regardless of this new policy. As a coworker of mine likes to say, "You have to eat *%$^* to get where you want to be." I'm just thankful for my oppurtunities.

 

[skypine69]

RJ Captain.

Yes, one can love a company and still complain about it. I understand that you may have misunderstood that from reading my post. However, that complaint is because I want Skywest to be a GREAT company, (like it used to be in my opinion.) Nothing wrong with wanting the place you will likely retire from (unless I decide to quit!) to be the best possible place to be. Sitting back and saying nothing when something is done wrong is worse than complaining!

 

[Wally]

Missing the point?

RJ Captain.

Yes, one can love a company and still complain about it... Sitting back and saying nothing when something is done wrong is worse than complaining!

Skypine, I don't think you could have put it better. People need to stand up for what they believe and more importantly, we all need to stand together.

I think many of you are missing the main point here. If SkyWest wants to change their policies, go for it. But how about some advance notice. As one guy pointed out, the website STILL states that new hires get paid. Also, they told us in the interview that we would be getting paid for training and less than two weeks before training begins, they back down from their word. That's no way of welcoming your new employees, is it? It has certainly left some of us new hires in a pinch as this drastic policy change took affect AFTER some of us notified our current employers we were leaving.

 

[dogg]

I wonder if all of Skywest's ground school attendees(can't call them new hires if they are not employees and cant call them employees if they are not being compensated) were to apply for welfare and food stamps on the first day of class if that might not catch the eye of the State of Utah. And of course if they are not employees than they better not be providing them with saftey and security sensitive material or providing them with SkyWest badges or applying for SIDA badges for them. And of course no simulator training as that would be a violation of TSA regs. Last but not least, if a single company officer on the first day of ground school says "welcome to SkyWest" then employment is implied and they will be in violation of several Utah stautes.
HMMM...... is the ill will generated and the few bucks saved worth all that ......

Remember..Skywest is still a dysfunctional family run airline or is it an airline run by a dysfunctional family.... doesn't really matter as they are all the same no matter where you find them......... and none of this prevents it from being an OK place to work............