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Skybus update anyone?

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jegermeister said:
Don't kid yourself about being in business for six months. JetBlue started with 130 million and everyone considered them a joke when they started. These guys have 160 million and 65 firm orders for A319's.

65k to fly an Airbus is crazy. Having said that the market will determine if it stays that low. JetBlue has had to adjust their rates to keep ALPA off the property. These guys won't be any different.
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JetBlue also started in New York. Skybus is starting in Koluumb.......Where?
 
skiandsurf said:
JetBlue also started in New York. Skybus is starting in Koluumb.......Where?
Click to expand...


JetBlue started in JFK, one of the most serviced markets in the world. And one of the hardest to make a profit. Southwest doesn't serve JFK, LGA, or EWR. They serve secondary airports like ISP.

SkyBus is using Ryan's business plan. They are not using a traditional hub and spoke like the Legacy carriers. Let's not try to compare McDonald's with Red Lobster.
 
jegermeister said:
JetBlue started in JFK, one of the most serviced markets in the world. And one of the hardest to make a profit. Southwest doesn't serve JFK, LGA, or EWR. They serve secondary airports like ISP.

SkyBus is using Ryan's business plan. They are not using a traditional hub and spoke like the Legacy carriers. Let's not try to compare McDonald's with Red Lobster.
Click to expand...

Before JB took over JFK, that place was a ghost town except at 6pm, with all of the int'l airlines departing with their 747s. New York is the largest populated area in the country. CMH is nowhere close. From my info, Skybus is trying to fly into small airports (manassas, va), which has NO service. No TSA. No rental car facilities. No hotels.

Good luck to all who gave up a job to go to Skybus. Hope it works out for you and your families.
 
I heard a rumor that the next a/c is going to be advertising Tampax. It's going to come complete with a streamer attached to the tail and everything...
 
jegermeister said:
Don't kid yourself about being in business for six months. JetBlue started with 130 million and everyone considered them a joke when they started. These guys have 160 million and 65 firm orders for A319's.

65k to fly an Airbus is crazy. Having said that the market will determine if it stays that low. JetBlue has had to adjust their rates to keep ALPA off the property. These guys won't be any different.
Click to expand...

Part of this business, like anything else, is 'timing' JetBlue started in 1999/2000, before the downturn in the industry (9/11 and the recession) when the industry was still growing and benefited for a 'niche' market. Then, grew easily and benefited post 9/11 from the service cut-backs at the legacy carriers.

Different time in the 'airline cycle' and probably not a real good time to start a new airline; legacy carriers have cut costs, more competitive (post bk, contraction) and expanding, as well as the LCC continue to expand. Additionally, CMH is not a large enough market for a 'hub' operation. They may be able to make a market with a handful of cities there, but I think if they get above about 20 a/c they will probably fail.

Another thought, if I was on the 'pilot hiring board/committee' of any legacy/major airline, I would seriously question the 'judgement' of a pilot who has 'skybus captain' on their resume, given the pay. $65,000/yr. for a A-320 Capt. is not just Sad, but if a pilot will 'whore' themselves that 'low' again, you have to "question their judgement"??????

Just my thoughts, now 'rant' away

DA

P.S. And, before anyone 'rants away on me' I have never 'whored myself' out just to get ahead in this business, get that big jet experience, PFT (don't believe in it), etc. I have worked my way up in this business and have turned down jobs, even when I was furloughed/unemployed, because they did not pay a wage that was consumerate (sp?) with the responsibility. 20+ yrs in this business, 10,000+ hrs. (mostly in large jets), 5 type rating (never paid for any of them, again don't believe in it), and I will do what I can to fight for better pay, benefits, and QOL in this business; ScareBus has no place in that.
Again, just my thought, anyone who takes a job as an A-320 capt. personally taking the responsibility for 150 passengers, for $65K/yrs (and even a F/O for $30K), will be view by myself and many in this industry as nothing but "airline Whore/Trash" and that is something that 'may' follow you in a business like this. Just a thought.

Again, 'rant away'
 
I'm not going to rant. You made some very good points. It's not going to be easy for these folks to make it. History tells us that. Timing is crucial and so is finding the right 'niche' market.

Two points...

1. The airline..... As I've said before it won't be easy. They are trying to business (in the US) in a way that hasn't been tried before, at least not on this scale. Only time will tell. The fact that they have a strong financial backing and folks at the top of the company who have experience running an airline makes me believe they have a chance.

2. The pay.... If it makes anyone feel better that these guys will be less competitve at an interview with Airbus time keep thinking that. History just doesn't support it though. When's the last time a corprate guy got shot down for a job at the majors for flying for below average wages? How many Mesa guys fly for a major? How many guys paid for training and got on with a major? Shall I continue?

I agree that this is another bad precident. The others being... Mainline taking huge pay cuts, mainline farming out flying to regionals, airlines bleeding eachother into chapter 11 and then shedding all of their financial burdens, ALPA signing off on all of it. We need a national union that will stand up for all us. As long as each MEC negotiatates it's own contract we'll never be united.
 
I still think when you take into consideration the type/experience of management Skybus has, then they probably aren't going into this without some sort of notion of what they're doing.
I believe this...I think their management probably knows that this airline is risky, and that Columbus isn't necessarily the best market to be launching...but if they are able to find enough people who are initially willing to take the lower wages to help get the company off of the ground, then the rewards will come later if everything succeeds. Keep initial launching costs low = faster the company can start making money and paying back creditors = company is then in a better position to offer higher wages and benefits. Why shoot yourself in the foot before you've even started?
It makes sense to me...but now if it works and IF the company would be willing to increase wages once the company starts making money...only time will tell.
 
bgaviator said:
I still think when you take into consideration the type/experience of management Skybus has, then they probably aren't going into this without some sort of notion of what they're doing.
I believe this...I think their management probably knows that this airline is risky, and that Columbus isn't necessarily the best market to be launching...but if they are able to find enough people who are initially willing to take the lower wages to help get the company off of the ground, then the rewards will come later if everything succeeds. Keep initial launching costs low = faster the company can start making money and paying back creditors = company is then in a better position to offer higher wages and benefits. Why shoot yourself in the foot before you've even started?
It makes sense to me...but now if it works and IF the company would be willing to increase wages once the company starts making money...only time will tell.
Click to expand...

If you've been in, or have even studied this industry, you should know that a company will not reward you for sticking with them and their crap wages. They will only pat each other on the butt and line their pockets with cash, while you, a pilot, will see nothing. Why are you so excited about this company? Are you in the HR department there or something? If you are....stop drinking the KoolAid.
 
bgaviator said:
I still think when you take into consideration the type/experience of management Skybus has, then they probably aren't going into this without some sort of notion of what they're doing.
I believe this...I think their management probably knows that this airline is risky, and that Columbus isn't necessarily the best market to be launching...but if they are able to find enough people who are initially willing to take the lower wages to help get the company off of the ground, then the rewards will come later if everything succeeds. Keep initial launching costs low = faster the company can start making money and paying back creditors = company is then in a better position to offer higher wages and benefits. Why shoot yourself in the foot before you've even started?
It makes sense to me...but now if it works and IF the company would be willing to increase wages once the company starts making money...only time will tell.
Click to expand...

Now that's funny :)

From my 20+ years in this business, I can tell you that there have only been roughly two people in 'airline management' who ever knew what they were doing; and that is Herb and Gordon.

You have to take into account that from the time the Wright Brothers flew up to today; NO money has been made in the airline business. If you add up all the profits and all the losses, it come up to a 'Big Negative.'

Here's a thought, if you do go to an interview, ask them if the CEO and the rest of management are going to be paid less than 50% of what the industry average is for airline management/CEO pay??? I bet NOT!!

Again, anyone who is willing to 'Ho' themselves out to fly a A320, a 150 seat airliner as a Capt. for just $65K/yr. is nothing but 'opportunistic airline trash' But, that's just my opinion (and probably the view of many/most of the professionals in this industry). However, there are 'a lot' of Stupid, dumb a$$ pilots out there, who will fly for NOTHING, just to make someone else rich.......

I never sent them a resume or called them, but they email and called me for an interview as A320 Capt. I blew them off, but then again, I have standards!!

For what its worth, now 'rant away'
 
buckeyeflyer said:
I heard a rumor that the next a/c is going to be advertising Tampax. It's going to come complete with a streamer attached to the tail and everything...
Click to expand...

With a little red on the belly to. Maybe the Skybus pilots will have there Red Barons license already.
 
I guess we in America need to learn from overseas airline companies like emirates, cathay, Kingfisher who literally treat their pilots like Gods and pay them what they deserve....$9k a month for an A320 capt and 6k a month for FO's....now that's what I call a paycheck.....don't have to keep your family on welfare anymore....
 
route date

Routes will be announced next Tuesday as well as the launch of the web site where you can begin booking tickets.
 
I agree that it is a shame that low wages are now making their way up from the regionals to the nationals.

Even though $65k for a captain and $30k for an FO in an Airbus is terrible, the first year pay does include stock options of 4500 and 1500 respectively. If an IPO gathers just $20 a stock, than the captains just got $90,000 and the FOs got $30,000 bonus. I'm sure there are stipulations in selling the stock, but it's better than nothing. What really matters is what 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year pay etc, is. If pay only goes up 5% a year, than that does suck.

Who knows how Skybus will do. Everyone thought Jet Blue was going to go downt the tubes, and it didn't. Not comparing Skybus to Southwest, but when Southwest started, all it had was 3 aircraft and only flew to 3 cities. Who would've worked for Southwest in 1971, in which Southwest was an Intra-State airline during the years of regulation. Why fly for some small no name airline low fare carrier when you could have gotten a job with Braniff, PanAM, TWA or anthor major airline at the time.

Just something to think about. (No I am no a Skybus pilot. No I haven't applied. I just am try to analyze the situation.)
 
The situation is management will be offering these "ultra-low" fares off the backs of labor.
 

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