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Skiles on 3407

livin'thesim

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From AvWeb:

15449's Jeff Skiles Takes on 3407 and Pilot Standards


Jeff Skiles was serving as first officer to Sully Sullenberger when US Airways Flight 1549 successfully ditched in the Hudson and last week he sat beside Scott Maurer, father of a victim of Continental Connection (Colgan) Flight 3407, to push for changes in minimum federal standards for pilots. While 1549 ended relatively well, all aboard Flight 3407, plus one on the ground, perished when that commuter flight fell into a Buffalo suburb early this year. Skiles said the cockpit transcript from Flight 3407 indicated to him that the pilots of that flight "had no idea what they were doing and shouldn't even have been there," GoUpstate.com reported. Skiles and Maurer held a press conference at the Maurers' home Thursday, asserting that standards for commercial pilots should be similar, regardless of how many passengers they're flying. "You used to have five years or more in the industry before you could even look at getting a job at a regional airline," said Skiles, who added that the "fast-food wages" at commuters means "you cannot get trained professional pilots" to fill those jobs. Skiles and Maurer are urging legislative action, and some feel there's more to the problem.

James Ray, media spokesman for the US Airline Pilots Association, argues that commuter carriers fly under the radar in that they don't compete for customers. They earn passengers through contracts with major airlines, which Ray says often go to the lowest bidder. Skiles told reporters that his paycheck and benefits account for less than $3.50 of each ticket's price, adding, "Would you pay that to have Sully and me up there in the cockpit?"
 

SEVEN

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Good for him. Unfortunately the truth hurts. But he is right; that crew had no business operating that aircraft. The "people" that allowed the crew to operate that aircraft are to blame. Changes need to come. No pilot should ever stall a 121 aircraft and then fail to recover properly. Also, no "experienced" real airline pilot should land a 767 on a freakin taxiway. No professional "experienced " airline crew should ever overfly the destination for 150 miles either. Maybe Sully and his FO pal can come up with some ideas on how to prevent these "experienced" guys from putting our loved ones in serious danger!
 

Jar Jar

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its easy to counter the argument for more experience in the regionals by pointing at recent mistakes in the majors. Instead, why not agree that both are unique problems which both need to be fixed. more experience, better quality pilots at regionals and less complacency in the majors are both goals which benefit everyone.
 

SEVEN

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its easy to counter the argument for more experience in the regionals by pointing at recent mistakes in the majors. Instead, why not agree that both are unique problems which both need to be fixed. more experience, better quality pilots at regionals and less complacency in the majors are both goals which benefit everyone.
Bingo. Well said. Unfortunately, the powers that be never seem to get it right when it comes to fixing the real issues at hand. Way too much red tape and b.s.
 

Sandhawk

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Good for him. Unfortunately the truth hurts. But he is right; that crew had no business operating that aircraft. The "people" that allowed the crew to operate that aircraft are to blame. Changes need to come. No pilot should ever stall a 121 aircraft and then fail to recover properly. Also, no "experienced" real airline pilot should land a 767 on a freakin taxiway. No professional "experienced " airline crew should ever overfly the destination for 150 miles either. Maybe Sully and his FO pal can come up with some ideas on how to prevent these "experienced" guys from putting our loved ones in serious danger!


An experienced pilot might have pushed the throttles on his A320 to TOGA, thus getting some extra thrust out of his 1 engine running at idle thrust........instead of putting said airplane in the Hudson to prove that sh!t floats!!


:cool:
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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An experienced pilot might have pushed the throttles on his A320 to TOGA, thus getting some extra thrust out of his 1 engine running at idle thrust........instead of putting said airplane in the Hudson to prove that sh!t floats!!


:cool:


The engine was at toga for a while but nothing was happening except the EGT rising.

The single engine that was still operating was capable of producing no more than idle thrust.

Care to retract your retarded statement?
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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That is a mind numbingly stupid statement.

You OK making half of what you should be getting paid as a pilot?

Stupid mistakes that were made years ago (albeit with much poorer technology) will continue to be made on a higher and higher incidence level as the race to the bottom continues.
 

Sandhawk

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The engine was at toga for a while but nothing was happening except the EGT rising.

The single engine that was still operating was capable of producing no more than idle thrust.

Care to retract your retarded statement?

Nope, the thrust levers were never moved to the TOGA position.........

Read the Airbus Initial Report, oh non-airbus flyin double-breasted sky-god.

:pimp:
 

ASA_Aviator

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You OK making half of what you should be getting paid as a pilot?

Stupid mistakes that were made years ago (albeit with much poorer technology) will continue to be made on a higher and higher incidence level as the race to the bottom continues.

Pay has nothing to do with it. The pay was higher (in real dollars) 30 years ago, and the system is MUCH safer now due to better training, better technology, etc..

People do stupid things regardless of what the pay is. If you want to increase safety, you'll need to do more than throw money at the problem.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Nope, the thrust levers were never moved to the TOGA position.........

Read the Airbus Initial Report, oh non-airbus flyin double-breasted sky-god.

:pimp:


My bad, they were in climb detent and it was non-responsive. Only EGT was rising with no spool response. What on earth would dumping more gas into it would have accomplished?

One of the worst things you can do to a barely surviving engine is screw aroudn with the power setting. You'll go from something that is producing vital electrical and hyd power, to another hunk of useless semi-burning metal. Don't screw with it.

Not to mention the first thing he did when they hit the birds was reach up and crank the APU. The guy was thinking ahead....

With that being said- this non-airbus flyin double-breasted sky-god stands by his original statement.
 
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PeanuckleCRJ

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Pay has nothing to do with it. The pay was higher (in real dollars) 30 years ago, and the system is MUCH safer now due to better training, better technology, etc..

People do stupid things regardless of what the pay is. If you want to increase safety, you'll need to do more than throw money at the problem.


Training and technology has improved drastically thanks in large part to the previous decades of very highly paid employees.... which has offset much of the issues that would ahve been caused by the crap going on this decade.

The only thing they've done this decade is figure out what they can cut without (hopefully) killing too many people... we'll see if it continues to play out.

Dramatic outsourcing without investing properly in infrastructure works great- just ask Boeing!

Increasing pay to attract a more competitive pool for pilots never hurts. I'd rather have a well educated, well screened pilot than someone who's mom and dad forked out 100 grand at some pilot mill program with an RJ transition- how about you?
 

JoeMerchant

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Increasing pay to attract a more competitive pool for pilots never hurts. I'd rather have a well educated, well screened pilot than someone who's mom and dad forked out 100 grand at some pilot mill program with an RJ transition- how about you?

That argument would hold more water if the highly experienced "Sky Gods" would quit landing on taxiways at night and overflying their destination by hundreds of miles....
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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That argument would hold more water if the highly experienced "Sky Gods" would quit landing on taxiways at night and overflying their destination by hundreds of miles....


I'll give you the overflight, however the taxiway situation...well- there's a lot more to that. Let the investigation come out.

Oh.... I forgot. How many people died in those two examples? Injuries? People that even realized something happened?

I don't have those numbers, do you?
 
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Rez O. Lewshun

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The marco problem is we live in a market/commodity society. The only way we know how to fix this "pilot experience" problem is money. Why money? Because that is all we value.

If we had established other values besides money, as a democracy we could address them much better....

Mind blowing, I know....
 

Poahi

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Pilots bashing pilots. Nothing changes. Who needs management to drive a stake through the heart of solidarity. The same greed and selfishness that brought you age 65 makes a public spectacle that shows the traveling public that flying is based on luck, not skill.
 

wms

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Auto-throttles could have prevented Colgan 3407, and would be cheaper than giving pilots raises.
 

ASA_Aviator

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I'll give you the overflight, however the taxiway situation...well- there's a lot more to that. Let the investigation come out.

Oh.... I forgot. How many people died in those two examples? Injuries? People that even realized something happened?

I don't have those numbers, do you?

In the ATL example, the only reason there wasn't a death was due to luck. Someone easily could have taxied onto the taxiway into their path.
 
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