Shuttle/Republic Relations

[SF340Guy]

Ask the guys who got fired out of seniority after 9/11 if they wanted to thank him.

Oh, you mean the S5 MEC chairman? Yeah we don't know anything about that. And yes, If I have to take a furlough then it is to much to ask!!!

 

[FlyingDawg]

While I don't necessarily share SF340guys view of the training class, and I don't have a family like him, I do wish that the 747 would not have put so many delays on the arbitration process, thus allowing the current situation to exist.

For that reason, I do feel that maybe in a show of good faith, the 747 could sign an LOA allowing for the training to start on the saab guys, that they will be integrated somehow into the 747 list.

I would like to know what kind of delays the 747 are responsible for? We are being told that 264 was the reason for the delay in that you guys took so long to obtain council. Not sure who is telling the truth here, but I would like to hear the other side of the story and draw my own conclusions.

I am aware that Wayne H. contacted the arbitrator and 747 council felt this was a violation of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs and requested another individual to hear the case. Total delay because of this was less than two weeks. Is there other delays that we should be aware of?

I too have nothing against any Saab Shuttle employees. I look forward to you guys coming onboard. I hope the arbitrator rules quickly.

Personally I think it should be a relative position merge, eventhough I would benefit more with a DOH merge. I feel relative position is fair and equitable since everyone would remain at the same percentile post-merge as they were pre-merge.

 

[cargoflyr69]

I would like to know what kind of delays the 747 are responsible for? We are being told that 264 was the reason for the delay in that you guys took so long to obtain council. Not sure who is telling the truth here, but I would like to hear the other side of the story and draw my own conclusions.

Attn All Shuttle Saab drivers:

Lets stop this public debate please. In a week from now, after arbitration is over, then lets feel free to discuss whatever is on our minds in public. Cheers!

 

[STREAKS]

Cheeeezzzz!

Dorkness, thy name is Brandon...

Thats the most "stroke-thy-self" material I've ever seen, and I'm a Riddle Jack!!!
____________________________________________________________
Don't worrrrry wolfy, I've been rrrrestlin wolves when yourrrr wass suckin on yur motherrrsss teeeets...

 

[Cracker]

Furlough or not...the management's actions are still in violation of our CBA. Cut and dry. Black and white. Allowing them to blatantly disregard our...and soon to be yours...labor contract would violate everything that every union labor group has tried to stand for.

Either way...you know what's best for you and your family. Just be informed.

 

[tyuwerty]

Not True, in a recent SA 170 class, half of them were 4 year independence drivers, some of them former FLY I captains. And the rest of them all had 121 experience. Not one was instructing. These guys are screaming the loudest cause they are going to get screwed the worst, I feel bad for these guys. they are getting screwed by these saab scum. and tense labor issue will be the result, i dont even want to think about it.

1. None of the guys from ACA that I have met are screaming at all. They realize there is no guarantee to a year and a half upgrade for them. They have all been an extremely professional group. So please don't tarnish their name. They also realize that there will be an integration and that the Shuttle guys will end up ahead of them on the list.

2. I have only seen the flight instructing FO's with a year ot the comapny make asses of themselves. They are 1 of the reasons that CHQ pilots have a bad name in the industry.

3. Watch who you call Saab scum and please review your history book. The senior CHQer's all flew the exact same airplanes that Shuttle is currently flying.

 

[freeflyer14]

Oh, you mean the S5 MEC chairman? Yeah we don't know anything about that. And yes, If I have to take a furlough then it is to much to ask!!!

So why can't the guys who went to Freedom, G J, etc. (you get my point) all use that same defense for their actions? Where does it end? You are clearly stating you applaud RAH management for blatantly violating a contract that was designed to avoid this very situation. SF340 guy, I am in no way comparing you or anyone at shuttle to G J or freedom or anything like that, but your attitude of "it's all about me" sounds exactly like that of anyone who ever tried to defend their actions while stabbing someone (or some other work group) in the back.

 

[StarChecker]

2. I have only seen the flight instructing FO's with a year ot the comapny make asses of themselves. They are 1 of the reasons that CHQ pilots have a bad name in the industry.

3. Watch who you call Saab scum and please review your history book. The senior CHQer's all flew the exact same airplanes that Shuttle is currently flying.

Agreed 100%. Please know that the select few knuckleheads you are encountering here are the extreme minority enjoying the anonymity of the internet and you guys will be welcomed with open arms.....after the judge's decision...as per our CBA.

Seriously...welcome aboard.

 

[saab340]

The S5 mec chairman who got fired I guess after you read my post you know who it is. I know to some this is old news but you have to look at the history of Shuttle America to see what is going on today. I was at the meeting in LGA when the mesa -10% was going on. I was in D.C.A when we try to get a vote on J4J but we were told that it would hurt the CHQ group during there contract talks. I told the pilots and the union to watch were the 70 seat airplanes were going to and what would happen if Shuttle America got bought out. I was told by the union do not worry Shuttle America will never get jets. I ask what would happen to the pilot list if Shuttle America were to merge with another carrier the same thing Shuttle America will not get jets. I even spoke to Wexford about the 70 seat jet's spent a hour on the phone with them same answer Chq is a public held company no jets for Shuttle America. I even work on getting j4j at Shuttle America.

I cannot believe that this is going this far I read both contract (chq&Shuttle America) in fact Shuttle contract is the old Chq contract so both say if one company is bought out the pilot list will be merge by D.O.H. so some one please explain to me what is the problem.

I had to do my 6 month checkride and I guess you guy's and gals can take it from there. The union did nothing to help me so much for the union

 

[tyuwerty]

Agreed 100%. Please know that the select few knuckleheads you are encountering here are the extreme minority enjoying the anonymity of the internet and you guys will be welcomed with open arms.....after the judge's decision...as per our CBA.

Seriously...welcome aboard.

Thank-you, it is nice to hear a voice of reason. Hopefully we will have the decision in a week and we can all move on the more important things. Two locals from the same union should never be pitted against each other like this.

 

[StarChecker]

Thank-you, it is nice to hear a voice of reason. Hopefully we will have the decision in a week and we can all move on the more important things. Two locals from the same union should never be pitted against each other like this.

Pitting us against each other is exactly what Bedford and his Evil Henchmen have in mind. We need all of you guys next time negotiations come around.


I just hope that the idea of management integrating two seniority lists is as offensive to you guys as it is to us. It has nothing to do with where you guys end up...if the judge says all you guys are senior to me...then so be it. But I'll be dammed if Satan Heller will be the one to make that decision.


This should outrage everyone at every airline with a seniority list and a CBA.

 

[Traumahawk]

These Shuttle Saab guys have no idea whats in store for them with Heller at the helm...

To say this early "he's doing the "right thing" for the saab guys" is more than scary.


Wayne Heller = Mr. Potter (It's a wonderful life)

 

[FlyingDawg]

I cannot believe that this is going this far I read both contract (chq&Shuttle America) in fact Shuttle contract is the old Chq contract so both say if one company is bought out the pilot list will be merge by D.O.H. so some one please explain to me what is the problem.

You might want to read the CHQ contract again because it DOES NOT SAY DOH!


H. Successorship and Mergers

In the event of a merger of airline operations between the Company and another air carrier the Company will require, as a condition of any such operational merger that provisions be included requiring that the surviving carrier shall provide for fair and equitable integration of the pre-merger pilots’ seniority lists in accordance with Articles 3 and 13 of the Allegheny Mohawk LPPs.



I have included the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs that relate to our contract, so one can reference them as they apply.

Section 3. Insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and the representatives of the employees affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute may be submitted by either party for adjustment in accordance with section 13.

Section 13. (a) In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settle by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time it is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.

(b.) The above condition shall not apply if the parties by mutual agreement determine that an alternative method for dispute settlement or an alternative procedure for selection of an arbitrator is appropriate in their particular dispute. No party shall be excused from complying with the above condition by reason of having suggested an alternative method or procedure unless and until that alternative method or procedure shall have been agreed to by all parties.

 

[jumppilot]

So why can't the guys who went to Freedom, G J, etc. (you get my point) all use that same defense for their actions? Where does it end? You are clearly stating you applaud RAH management for blatantly violating a contract that was designed to avoid this very situation. SF340 guy, I am in no way comparing you or anyone at shuttle to G J or freedom or anything like that, but your attitude of "it's all about me" sounds exactly like that of anyone who ever tried to defend their actions while stabbing someone (or some other work group) in the back.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

Anyone at Shuttle care to respond?

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

Nope........We'll let the arbitrator speak for us. Have a great day!

 

[jumppilot]

Nope........We'll let the arbitrator speak for us. Have a great day!

Dude, not many people on the Shuttle A-list (which you'll be know as at CHQ) will affect my seniority. I'm just curious how you justify taking training dates when it is against the RAH contract we have with management?

Have fun working here, A-lister. It will be hell if these actions continue.

 

[FandE]

So CHQ's scope covers all aircraft operated by RAH and Shuttle's scope covers all aircraft operated by Shuttle America. I can't seem to find the scope that talks about all pilots trained in indoc, can someone please point that out so I can understand how these guys are accepting illegal class dates?

Also, just out of curiosity, using the same logic we are illegally flying the Saab's...why are you ok with that?

 

[FlyingDawg]

Nope........We'll let the arbitrator speak for us. Have a great day!

Actually your council will speak for you and the arbitrator will be listening. Afterwards he makes the decision.

 

[Axel]

selected exerpts: in context; just to clarify

...There is a faction of junior guys at RAH who have been yelling "STAPLE!!!" since day one for all to hear, claiming that anything else will delay their upgrade... the guys screaming the loudest were instructing in Seminoles (figuratively speaking) this time last year...

... They are a minority, but they are making so much noise that noone sees anything else. Their public willingness to climb on the backs of others (MAA and SA) in order to advance is seriously annoying a lot of people both within their own group and beyond...

 

[Skull1]

To: Shuttle America and Chautauqua crews

The public display of internal disputes needs to stop.

I ask that both parties refrain from making anymore statements regarding this matter. Let the facts, history, and convictions be heard at the proper jurisdication.

An exposure of internal disputes can only bring more harm and escalate an even more fragile relationship between the 2 pilot groups. The more you post the Wh's and How's here and raised your own personal speculation and delibration can only increase the animosity between us all.

There are many facts and informations that are being witheld by both MEC for reason like this and more. Let them deliberate this through proper channels and go from there.

Do not stoop so low to harm your fraternal brother's and sisters and put harm to your future family!