Shutdown

[Diesel]

talk about a weird post from akaab?

so because we are fighting to make our lives better that's a bad thing?

 

[loverobot]

Just curious, is a dispatcher required for a fractional operator? Does the FAA require a dispatcher to sign off on a release for 91k or 135 flights as they are with a 121 operation?

 

[You're right]

..........I also hope you are prepared to pay the price......."

AKAAB

Aaaah, but Diesel, this is actually fairly perceptive of "akaab".

Let's summarize the current situation today at NetJets:

• Continued practice of "slowdown" (what is it now, 61% availability/day); yeah yeah I know, "older airplanes" even though the average aircraft is 4.7 years old
• Service issues from SOME crewmembers, (read a survey today from an owner that said, "I was in a great mood until I showed up for my aircraft. The crew would not assist me with my bags and was very grumpy to me")
• How about the ever increasing epidemic known as DNIF

I must say your plan is unfolding well, but we are losing owners.

Fewer owners = fewer airplanes = fewer pilots

"....be prepared to pay the price". Don't kid yourself thinking that this isn't a very real possibility. The question is, will you be 1,900 or 1,800 or 1,700 or 1,600 "strong" when it happens?

 

[Diesel]

You can take a brand new airplane fly it 1500 hours a year and it's going to break like it was an old worn out plane. Especially if it was a cessna.

Actually the older airplanes perform better because all the stuff that breaks on the newer airplanes have been replaced.

I am prepared to pay the price. Trust me the pilots aren't the one that oversold the fleet. Look at your pilot satisfaction charts they are through the roof. OS and Scheduling have just about sunk the company.

But that's okay. It's the pilots fault too.

 

[You're right]

Diesel, you state "You can take a brand new airplane fly it 1500 hours a year and it's going to break like it was an old worn out plane. Especially if it was a cessna.

Actually the older airplanes perform better because all the stuff that breaks on the newer airplanes have been replaced."

If you are going to quote company figures, please get the facts correct. The reality is ALL of our aircraft fly less than 1000 hours per year, not 1500 as you state. This is publicly posted information each month; call your CP if you need the details.

Second, we are operating each day with aircraft availability south of 65%. Write ups such as "the day dimmer switch would not illuminate brightly enough during the day", "the tootsie roll was stuck in the cabinet drawer" or how about the "the rubber cap on the hydraulic pressure test button had an 'apparent' tear in it". EACH one of these write-ups downed the aircraft and DELAYED AN OWNER (yes, shame on the company for not having SERVICE MEL's)

The reality is, that this is leverage that some pilots choose to exercise, and as I stated earlier, the strategy is working well for the union. Aircraft availability is at its all time lowest point. Don't insult either of our intelligence with statements like "Actually the older airplanes perform better ....." We both understand and accept "the chicken game" for what it is.

All I'm asking, is that when some pilots post on here, "tick tock", "Red October", "Black November", "Happy Holidays", etc are you prepared to accept the business ramifcations of these actions?

Some time in the very near future, the "chicken game" will end and BUSINESS decisions will be made. This "chapter" in aviation has been written many times before, NetJets is no different.

Again, fewer owners = fewer aircraft = fewer pilots

This is not a pilot issue Diesel. There is culpability on both sides of this TEAM, and both sides will pay a large price if the equation above plays out. I can only wonder if your seniority number is high enough to protect you when it does.

 

[Diesel]

Ahhh so this is the fear part? fewer owners=fewer aircraft=furlough pilots. lets make sure we get it right.

How about this. You must be using your vast flying knowledge, ATP or A&P and a few thousand hours in command to decide what writeup broken item is insignificant vs non.

A writeup is a writeup. Carrying broken aircraft is illegal. You want a higher percentage of availability in aircraft? Maintain them better and more often.

Yes older airplanes do break less. I know the older X's I fly perform much better and break less than the newer ones. Okay 1000 hrs whatever. Cessna never built these planes to do that. Ask them. They don't build airline type equipment. They build corporate aircraft that is able to see a crew chief every week.

 

[XTW]

Just curious, is a dispatcher required for a fractional operator? Does the FAA require a dispatcher to sign off on a release for 91k or 135 flights as they are with a 121 operation?

No

X

 

[El Chupacabra]

are you prepared to accept the business ramifcations of these actions?

Yes.

What part of 93% voting in favor of a Strike did you not understand?

I want the union to walk out of the SHAM negotiations right now.

Last word is management has offered 5th yr pay about 7 k lower than last yrs rejected TA ... with NO INSURANCE. No Retro , No Scope.

I am happier continuing just as we are now...

 

[AA717driver]

Chup--You guys are in the same boat as every other group out there today. Until there is a flood of people out the door, taking their valuable (in dollar terms--that's the only way management views it) training with them, nothing will change.

Right now, whether it's due to lack of opportunity, lethargy or QOL v. pay people aren't leaving.

I make below NBAA pay. Sure I'd like a $30k raise to get me there. But I don't want to have to move to HPN to get it. That's my choice and my employer has no reason to bump me up because he can't move around his office because of the piles of resumes he gets.

I hope you get what you are after. I'm just not optimistic at this time. Good luck.TC

 

[Ultra Grump]

...Again, fewer owners = fewer aircraft = fewer pilots
...There is culpability on both sides of this TEAM, and both sides will pay a large price if the equation above plays out...

This is true. What managament fails to accept is that if they give what we're asking now, the "large price" later can be avoided.

The true equation is: fewer owners = less money = goodbye NetJets. There is one simple way to avoid this. Can you guess what it is?

 

[FAcFriend]

This is true. What managament fails to accept is that if they give what we're asking now, the "large price" later can be avoided.

The true equation is: fewer owners = less money = goodbye NetJets. There is one simple way to avoid this. Can you guess what it is?

ok ultragrump,

I give up...lets bury this company...lets all get unemployed together...

You win..the pilots win...YAHOO.....the pilots win....

NetJets is out of business....

 

[Diesel]

aa17

I don't know if you remember it but you and g200 and G4G5 were talking about how corparate flight departments don't lose money they actually make money for the flight department.

It was an excellent post and is dead on. problem i can't find it. It was in the corp section. Do you remember it?

 

[dukeofdub]

This is true. What managament fails to accept is that if they give what we're asking now, the "large price" later can be avoided.

The true equation is: fewer owners = less money = goodbye NetJets. There is one simple way to avoid this. Can you guess what it is?

Lockout the Union and bring in pilots who want to work and build a good company? How can a company survive going 400 million in dept just to pay a portion of it's workforce? And the excuse that the Company wastes money doesn't buy it. If it could be easily fixed, it would be.

 

[CMHTroll]

Lockout the Union and bring in pilots who want to work and build a good company? How can a company survive going 400 million in dept just to pay a portion of it's workforce? And the excuse that the Company wastes money doesn't buy it. If it could be easily fixed, it would be.

Duke, I don't think it will ever come to that, but you are right about the cost savings. Low hanging fruit has been easily picked, and the travel committe, (a JOINT venture of management and pilots,) has saved the company a lot of money. When or if the contract is done and the pilots decide to want to be part of a team, then we can get back to working on cost savings. But until then we will watch money fly out the window as pilots ground aircraft and show their solidarity.

 

[Ultra Grump]

ok ultragrump,

I give up...lets bury this company...lets all get unemployed together...

You win..the pilots win...YAHOO.....the pilots win....

NetJets is out of business....

I've never said "let's bury the company." You fail to realize that management has the ability to bring this to a close. How much do all the selloffs cost the company? How much does losing owners because of OS and lack of aircraft cost? I would venture a guess that the pay we're asking for is a drop in the bucket in comparison. Management has the ability to change ALL of this. The question is, when will they?