Shutdown

[aeronautic1]

I need an FO

qualified in the G200

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace,

You are correct with the above statement, but why would, say a Flex not pay more and try and bury the competition?

I'm not sure I understand your question. How would having a higher cost of operation (paying more) bury the competition.

Ace

 

[Hogprint]

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I guess what I'm asking you is why would the other non-union frax pay just as low wages as NJA if as you say the majority of the industry are paying more?

What I'm hinting at is that this doesn't seem to be a union/non union issue. Piss poor pay is piss poor, no matter how you look at it.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Please provide me with some examples of the many companies that voluntarily provide a good wage and benefits program for nonunionized employees.

NJA, NJI, EJM for starters. They all employ non-negotiating employees that make good wages and benefits.

NJA negotiating employees, I hope, will not be far behind.

It's just so hard to comprehend how many can portray their union as their saviour from low wages when they are the lowest paid if compared to non-union employees from the same company! At what point do you have to start admitting the union is part of the problem???

So why is it so hard to get a raise?

Well, take a look at what the union is asking for - it forces the company to engage in years-long battles until they can agree on something affordable and agreeable. They don't have this "problem" with non-union employees. No politics, no fuss, no nogotiating - you get what they give you. I don't like it - I go somewher else... because I don't have an organization to keep me around on the hopeful promise I can cash in on WB's personal wealth.

A couple weeks ago someone gave up asking how much you are asking for after repeating his question several times - no one would answer. I sense perhaps there is almost an embarassment to tell anyone what you want - double of your current base pay - because it appears obviously incredulous to anyone who hears it.

 

[h25b]

These comments aren't very helpful - in fact they're pretty condescending. The fact is that NJA pilots have been operating for years without a reasonable and fair contract by any definition - especially when compared to their counterparts flying the same aircraft on the corporate side. Does anyone think paying a Citation X Captain $60K per year is fair - even with the so-called stability and schedule? No sane person would consider that amount fair or reasonable.

Who the h%ll said I was trying to be helpful ? The militant wing of your union burned the bridge with me and hundreds of others when they started with the scab-list threat for the 135 sell-off flights. As for the condescending remark, I guess the truth hurts.

You just proved my point and admitted your own mistake. The payscale has been horrible since its inception... If you went to work pinning your hopes that things would improve with the next new contract, well, shame on you...

NJA management has not been negotiating in good faith... I know people who have joined NJA with the expectation that the contract would improve to "acceptable" levels - a few have since departed because of the lack of progress.

You're just now figuring this out ??? WOW ! At least a "few" are starting to wise up...

Bottom line: NJA will continue to lose some of its more experienced and "safest" pilots if the situation does not improve. JetBlue, AirTran and SWA are ramping up and present themselves as better LONG-TERM career options given NJA's hostile and disrespectful employee environment.

Newsflash... Get in line behind THOUSANDS of other candidates WITH 121 time. I hear the competition is fierce. Your management has already proven that they don't care... And let me fill you in on another dirty secret, the "safest" pilots B.S. is just a sales ploy to sell shares and behind the scenes I hear that NJA is hiring just about any pilot who fogs a mirror when it's held in front of their face at the interview. I guess they are having little success because word has finally gotten out that the place sucks.

For crying out loud, people with 600 TT are going to regionals straight in to RJ's and upgrading in 1 yr., with better QOL...

I wonder how the owners would feel if they knew their many of their pilots were plotting their exit strategies...

This statement is my personal favorite... THEY DON'T CARE. If they gave a squat about seeing the same faces in the cockpit every time they flew and wanted to have NBAA compensated flight crews, they'd have their own plane/crew.

 

[Hogprint]

h25b keenly observed:

If they gave a squat about seeing the same faces in the cockpit every time they flew and wanted to have NBAA compensated flight crews, they'd have their own plane/crew.

Sadly, many are coming to this conclusion and moving on.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I guess what I'm asking you is why would the other non-union frax pay just as low wages as NJA if as you say the majority of the industry are paying more?

What I'm hinting at is that this doesn't seem to be a union/non union issue. Piss poor pay is piss poor, no matter how you look at it.

Yes, Frax just pay bad. You are correct again. Now, I can't quite prove that it all started with NetJets and that the bad pay there all was caused by the collective bargaining (union), but it is obvious that NetJets was the first to the party and established the low wages for the rest to copy.

Good news is, the bad pay at the frax hasn't hurt the 91/135 pay one bit. Nor has the reduction in pay at the Majors. As a matter of fact, we're all making more than ever.

Union hurt your pay, can't prove it. Union helped your pay, don't think so.

Ace

 

[Hawkered]

It had nothing to do with the union. The terrible pay was started by Pay-For-Training, nothing else.

 

[acaTerry]

NJA was the first, they set a president and the rest of the frax followed. The majority of the industry (19 and 135) are non-union and pay MORE.

Ace

Please take some of your six-figure pay and get a spelling lesson. The word is PRECEDENT!

 

[acaTerry]

A couple weeks ago someone gave up asking how much you are asking for after repeating his question several times - no one would answer.

I think many of us pilots are in the dark on that. I for one have no idea. But I know it better not be $29,000 in year 3.

 

[acaTerry]

Who the h%ll said I was trying to be helpful ? The militant wing of your union burned the bridge with me and hundreds of others when they started with the scab-list threat for the 135 sell-off flights.

Well, sour grapes seems to sum it all up....

 

[El Chupacabra]

Originally Posted by dsptchrNJA

A couple weeks ago someone gave up asking how much you are asking for after repeating his question several times - no one would answer.


​

NBAA pay. NJ is an NBAA member. Just want what other NBAA companies pay their pilots. Look it up.


Would be like Walmart employees asking for CostCo pay.



I heard that Bridgeway Bob said , "Picketing MAY be likely.... "

 

[FalconPilot69]

Pilot pay is now at a nearly all time low. Dollar for dollar, throughout the industry we are making less now than we were 20 years ago.
NetJets' problems are not pilot induced---ask the owners. QUOTE]

Until you get people to refuse to PFT and not work for sub standard wages such as the regionals and even NJA, cargo or any other flying job, you will never stop seeing low wages for pilots. If anyone thinks that they will see the money pilots were making 20 years ago or even pre 9/11, they are sadly mistaken. While there are still good paying flying jobs out there, the reality is unfortunately the reality. You see people posting on here all the time stating that pilots are "whores" and they are right.

 

[h25b]

Well, sour grapes seems to sum it all up....

Sour grapes... ???... No, it's called reeping what you sew...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Please take some of your six-figure pay and get a spelling lesson. The word is PRECEDENT!

I'd rather have the money, thank you.

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Well, sour grapes seems to sum it all up....

I think, my spelling bee winner, that 'sour grapes' refers to someone who wanted something, was unable to obtain it, and then says he didn't want it in the first place. If he had tried to get a job with NetJets, or if he was trying to get sell-offs and couldn't, and was now saying they're things he never really wanted anyway and was putting them down for that reason, then, perhaps you would call it 'sour grapes'. What is happening hear might be retribution or holding a grudge.

Thanks for coming to class.

Ace

 

[El Chupacabra]

Did you make more spelling errors in the last post just to see if he'd catch them?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Did you make more spelling errors in the last post just to see if he'd catch them?

Spelling can be corrected by a computer. Ignorant usage cannot.

Ace

 

[El Chupacabra]

Spelling can be corrected by a computer. Ignorant usage cannot.

Ace

Obviously. Hear Here.

 

[squonk]

Pilot pay is now at a nearly all time low. Dollar for dollar, throughout the industry we are making less now than we were 20 years ago.
NetJets' problems are not pilot induced---ask the owners. QUOTE]

Until you get people to refuse to PFT and not work for sub standard wages such as the regionals and even NJA, cargo or any other flying job, you will never stop seeing low wages for pilots. If anyone thinks that they will see the money pilots were making 20 years ago or even pre 9/11, they are sadly mistaken. While there are still good paying flying jobs out there, the reality is unfortunately the reality. You see people posting on here all the time stating that pilots are "whores" and they are right.

Falcon,

This brings up an interesting quandary. I have seen this argument, especially on this board, for over five years.

How do you keep people trying to break into this industry to refuse sub standard wages? I think most of us in the beginning had to settle for a sub standard wage just to get our hours unless you came out of the military and jumped into the right seat of a major.

Am I wrong about this? If anyone has any exceptions please post them.